OS Choice - Linux, BSDs, or Windows, they all work fine!

[MrShake]

Ok,

Since at least two of you seem to think you know better than "fanboy" mrshake, lets see you prove yourselfs, because I don't believe you can.

Mr Shake: given that I use linux for 90% of my personal computing time and 100% of my work time..I don't think I'm missing anything.

I don't care how much you USE linux personally or professionally. I use linux 100% in personal computing, 0% at my day job, and 90% in my personally owned buisness. It doesn't matter, you are still completely missing my point, despite me saying it over and over!

Shake's fanboyism is clouding HIS judgment.

So now, blantant name calling. Grow up.

My personal server has run OpenBSD, FreeBSD, or Ubuntu for the past 7 years. I admin Solaris machines and run Ubuntu desktop at work. I am tech support for my gf's dad's Caldera and Mandrake installations. I've been using Linux on a daily basis for years. It's insulting, to say the least, when Shake claims that I "don't know what I'm missing" or some such.

OpenBSD, FreeBSD are not linux (FACT)
Solaris is not linux (FACT)

My point, as I've made over and over, that you are missing, is that linux is a choice, and, if the average user (read 99% of) were to be given a linux machine in the same state they were given a windows machine (read: OS installed with compatible hardware), they would have NO ISSUES using linux. Thats why I applaud Dell for being a Tier 1 OEM linux provider. Your aparently "missing" that point entirely and depending on weak arguments such as "you have to use windows emulator" or "my sound didn't work"

Walking a 60 year old man through the process of unmounting a drive via CLI is a huge pain in the butt. Having to compile source code drivers and edit text configuration files just to get sound to work is a huge pain in the butt.

Try to walk that same 60 year old man through the process of unmounting a drive in windows using their basic admin guis. Or, the next time you CAN'T find a driver because the hardware is unsupported in VISTA, or is to old. Or, the next time you CAN'T change the setting you want in windows because its greyed out to protect you.

People PAY IT professionals to fix these kinds of problems. They don't do it themselfs. People PAY for computers that already have the OS and software installed. What people DON'T commonly do, is buy a computer, then install an os, then install aftermarket parts, then install various software. And, if they were to do the same with windows, they would be fraught with the same type of problems. Incompatable hardware, bad drivers, hard configurations, and yes, even SOUND THAT DOESN'T WORK.

This is my last word on the subject. When it "just works," and all your hardware is supported out of the box, and all the software you may ever need is listed in the package manager, then, yes, Linux works great, despite the fact that X and most window managers aren't quite as stable as Windows + Explorer. Linux greatly outclasses Windows as a server OS, and Linux is highly serviceable and usable as a desktop OS for the user who wants to invest a lot of time and energy into learning the system, but Linux offers typical users absolutely nothing over Windows and typical problems that users run into are much more difficult to solve in Linux than Windows.

You are a fool to think that windows "just works". That is the biggest fallacy in the computer world. Windows works because OEMS design their PREBUILT systems to work with it. Aftermarket parts and white-box built computers will have problems with linux, very true, but they also will have problems with windows.

I will state this again...

Linux is a choice

It is NOT right for everyone, in every situation. Neither is Windows.
It is FREE to TRY (hence, a choice) linux. Because of Live CDs, you can try linux without harming your current setup. No harddrive formatting or repartitioning, no saved files, no problem. If you don't like it, who cares. If you do, your now starting down a new path, and that is, in no way, a bad thing.


Anyone who continues to bash Linux with the same old, tired, unfounded arguments that have been used for years, has missed out on what linux has to offer. I am living proof that linux runs STABLE (250+ days online with no desktop crashes, stalls, hangups, bluescreens), can replace all the tasks I was doing in Windows (every single one), is upgradeable, dependable, flexible, and, my favorite part... free of cost.



Now my challenge to the two whom have already played the "I'm a linux expert but..." card. Show me PROOF that what I am saying is wrong. And when I say proof, I dont mean "this one time, I had a sound card that didn't work" I mean, proof that if an OEM purchased Linux computer were used by the average user, they would have problems.

GO, you can't win.

[jonnythan]

Linux is certainly a choice.

Never said it wasn't.

*shrug*

[MrShake]

Thats all you got?

For such a guru such as yourself, all you have is

Linux is certainly a choice.

Never said it wasn't.

*shrug*

While you might NOT have said it wasn't. What you did was make FUD based statements that its terrible and not ready for the average user. Implying that it is not a good choice for the average user.

WRONG AGAIN

[jonnythan]

Thats all you got?

For such a guru such as yourself, all you have is

Linux is certainly a choice.

Never said it wasn't.

*shrug*

While you might NOT have said it wasn't. What you did was make FUD based statements that its terrible and not ready for the average user. Implying that it is not a good choice for the average user.

WRONG AGAIN

This isn't a battle. I have no problem with you. I made my statements and I stand by them, as a longtime daily user of Linux on both desktop and server systems. Average users are simply not ready to compile source code to get drivers to work, install Windows emulators just to watch DVDs legally, and edit text configuration files to get X to work properly with their monitor. Average users aren't ready to be forced to use a command line to fix simple problems.

It's just an opinion. You don't have to be victorious.

You're so blinded by your Linux fanboyism that I'm already an enemy you need to prevail over because I think it's not the best choice for desktop users.

Give it up. There's no battle to win. No one left to convince.

[MrShake]

Thats all you got?

For such a guru such as yourself, all you have is

Linux is certainly a choice.

Never said it wasn't.

*shrug*

While you might NOT have said it wasn't. What you did was make FUD based statements that its terrible and not ready for the average user. Implying that it is not a good choice for the average user.

WRONG AGAIN

This isn't a battle. I have no problem with you. I made my statements and I stand by them, as a longtime daily user of Linux on both desktop and server systems. Average users are simply not ready to compile source code to get drivers to work, install Windows emulators just to watch DVDs legally, and edit text configuration files to get X to work properly with their monitor. Average users aren't ready to be forced to use a command line to fix simple problems.

It's just an opinion. You don't have to be victorious.

You're so blinded by your Linux fanboyism that I'm already an enemy you need to prevail over because I think it's not the best choice for desktop users.

Give it up. There's no battle to win. No one left to convince.

Over and over with the DVD stuff huh. Do you actually READ what I type? OR do you just see Blah Blah Blah...

Why would I have to configure text files to get X to work when I bought it OEM from Dell (and have dvd capability). Why would I have to compile drivers (which I havent' had to do in the last 4 or 5 releases of ubuntu by the way) if my OEM provider (again, DELL) has my system setup for me?

You never seem to answer these questions, yet still want to asert that its not the best choice, and that windows is. Prove to me that an OEM installed windows machine is better than an OEM installed linux machine for the average desktop user. This is where you continue to fail and your only point is FUD.

Its not even a fanboy thing man, its a basic concept. Windows is the RIGHT OS for MANY people. Millions use it every day with no problems. But your arguments as to why its superior are a fallacy.

[jonnythan]

Over and over with the DVD stuff huh. Do you actually READ what I type? OR do you just see Blah Blah Blah...

Why would I have to configure text files to get X to work when I bought it OEM from Dell (and have dvd capability). Why would I have to compile drivers (which I havent' had to do in the last 4 or 5 releases of ubuntu by the way) if my OEM provider (again, DELL) has my system setup for me?

You wouldn't if you bought it OEM from Dell.

Keep railing on me all day if you like. Keep yelling about my "FUD" or what have you.

Whatever you need to make yourself feel better and lets you scratch that "my OS recommendation is better than yours" itch.

*pat*pat*

[Kibagari]

Windows is the Operating System for people who just want their computers to work. Linux requires you to actually pay attention to what you are doing; one wrong click and you just effed your system up because it's open source.

Linux is not 100% compatible with Windows. There are a lot of programs from Windows that just won't run on a Linux system. For this, there are emulators: WINE, Cedega, etc.

Again, if you don't like actually having to interact with your computer at a VERY close level, don't get Linux. Don't even get a Mac; get Windows, be ignorant and give PC techs your money.

Windows: closed source. for people who just want their computer to work (I could NOT stop laughing while typing that, it's so wrong)

Mac: semi-open source. For art students, music junkies, and people who are just generally creative and kind of know what they're doing.

Linux: open source. Best interacts at the terminal. Don't get it unless you want your computing world to be turned upside down; if you go about it right, you'll never look at a PC the same way ever again.


Edit: if you're a windows/mac user and want to see what Linux is about, I HIGHLY recommend Ubuntu. It's easy to install, easy to interact with. You can use Ubuntu the same way you use a PC, and most of the software is free (downloaded from repositories). By software, I mean graphics programs (GIMP- the freeware alternative to photoshop), Sound programs (Ardour, Audacity), the list goes on.

But if you are going to try Linux, don't give up and get all upset when something doesn't work. There are thousands of Linux users on the internet that can help you, and it's all free support.

But hey, that's just me.

[MrShake]

Over and over with the DVD stuff huh. Do you actually READ what I type? OR do you just see Blah Blah Blah...

Why would I have to configure text files to get X to work when I bought it OEM from Dell (and have dvd capability). Why would I have to compile drivers (which I havent' had to do in the last 4 or 5 releases of ubuntu by the way) if my OEM provider (again, DELL) has my system setup for me?

You wouldn't if you bought it OEM from Dell.

Keep railing on me all day if you like. Keep yelling about my "FUD" or what have you.

Whatever you need to make yourself feel better and lets you scratch that "my OS recommendation is better than yours" itch.

*pat*pat*

Its good to see you've given up. You've realised that your wrong. Works for me. Please continue to use your OS of choice. If you make unfounded blanket statements, I will be there to disprove them.

NEXT

[jonnythan]

Its good to see you've given up. You've realised that your wrong. Works for me. Please continue to use your OS of choice. If you make unfounded blanket statements, I will be there to disprove them.

NEXT

Wow, you're being incredibly rude over the whole thing.

It's really sad to see someone so blinded by fanboyism.

I'll continue to use Linux and Windows on a daily basis where appropriate. You can continue to yell at anyone who disagrees with you.

It'll be OK. I'll think about you next time I'm editing a config file for someone. BTW, I hope you like my new sig!

[MrShake]

Windows is the Operating System for people who just want their computers to work. Linux requires you to actually pay attention to what you are doing; one wrong click and you just effed your system up because it's open source.

Lets get basic. Ubuntu does not allow you to alter system files without adding SUDO before the command, or requiring a SUDO or ROOT password before making the change. It is NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to eff up a linux system as a user. Ubuntu has made that even tougher

Linux is not 100% compatible with Windows. There are a lot of programs from Windows that just won't run on a Linux system. For this, there are emulators: WINE, Cedega, etc.

So what if linux isn't 100% compatable. People are being lead like sheep to the watering hole that is windows. You don't need Photoshop, you need photo editing/authoring software. You don't need Internet Explorer, you need a web browser. Ubuntu currently has 16,000 pieces of sofware in its repositories. You WILL find software to accomplish what you want to do. If gaming is your thing, there are options there as well, from linux FPS's like sauerbrauten to Cedega that allows you to play win games. DONE

Again, if you don't like actually having to interact with your computer at a VERY close level, don't get Linux. Don't even get a Mac; get Windows, be ignorant and give PC techs your money.

As a full time linux user, I NEVER HAVE TO interact with my computer on any close level. It just WORKS, and WORKS all the time. I've stated over and over again that we need to compare apples to apples. 99% of people buy computers from an OEM preinstalled. You CAN NOT compare a user installed OS experiance with an OEM preinstalled machine. If you level the playing field and buy linux OEM installed from dell (or any of the well over 100 OEM providers), you will see the seamless experiance that you see with windows.

Windows: closed source. for people who just want their computer to work (I could NOT stop laughing while typing that, it's so wrong)

Mac: semi-open source. For art students, music junkies, and people who are just generally creative and kind of know what they're doing.

Linux: open source. Best interacts at the terminal. Don't get it unless you want your computing world to be turned upside down; if you go about it right, you'll never look at a PC the same way ever again.

FUD and Fallacy. True, windows is closed source. False, Mac is not in any way open, it is completely closed source. True, Linux is Open Source, but False, it does not interact BEST at the terminal. Gnome, KDE, elightenment, XFCE, IceWM, and other windows managers (GUI) are stable and designed to work in many environments for many purposes. Gnome, in particular, is my primary (read 100% of the time) personal computer desktop.
Back to the main point: apples to apples - OEM installs of Linux DO NOT require a user to have their world turned upside down. You still use a browser to surf the web. An email client to check email. Media players to listen to music and video, and spreadsheets and text documents from an office suite. THE SAME EXPERIENCE with different program names.s

Edit: if you're a windows/mac user and want to see what Linux is about, I HIGHLY recommend Ubuntu. It's easy to install, easy to interact with. You can use Ubuntu the same way you use a PC, and most of the software is free (downloaded from repositories). By software, I mean graphics programs (GIMP- the freeware alternative to photoshop), Sound programs (Ardour, Audacity), the list goes on.

But if you are going to try Linux, don't give up and get all upset when something doesn't work. There are thousands of Linux users on the internet that can help you, and it's all free support.

But hey, that's just me.

You are right, that is just you. And I welcome your OPNION, but please do not state unfounded "facts" such as "Windows is the Operating System for people who just want their computers to work." or "f you don't like actually having to interact with your computer at a VERY close level, don't get Linux"

Lets not disuade someone with something other than fact. What purpose does it server?