Clutch-Less Shifting, Final Answer??

[HYPERR]

Regardless, I've got physical proof that clutchless shifting is bad for your transmission.

I've asked you a few times if this is your bike and if so what happend. If it is not your bike then who's is it and what was the circumstances surrounding it. You have yet to answer me. If you alledgedly have concrete proof, then I'm all ears(or eyes).

[ofblong]

Regardless, I've got physical proof that clutchless shifting is bad for your transmission.

I've asked you a few times if this is your bike and if so what happend. If it is not your bike then who's is it and what was the circumstances surrounding it. You have yet to answer me. If you alledgedly have concrete proof, then I'm all ears(or eyes).

He is a mechanic so most likely its not his but other squids that think clutchless shifting on a normal everyday bike is fine.

*edit

wtf I went back to the first page and right there sev shows proof of what clutchless shifting can cause. you just ruined all hope of anyone taking you seriously now.

If I am looking/reading the picture of the tranny correctly it looks like they were screwing it up when upshifting not down shifting based on how it looks worn. I am no motorcycle mechanic, however, so I could be reading the picture incorrectly. I am just an industrial Mechanic.

[HYPERR]

Regardless, I've got physical proof that clutchless shifting is bad for your transmission.

I've asked you a few times if this is your bike and if so what happend. If it is not your bike then who's is it and what was the circumstances surrounding it. You have yet to answer me. If you alledgedly have concrete proof, then I'm all ears(or eyes).

He is a mechanic so most likely its not his but other squids that think clutchless shifting on a normal everyday bike is fine.

*edit

wtf I went back to the first page and right there sev shows proof of what clutchless shifting can cause. you just ruined all hope of anyone taking you seriously now.

If I am looking/reading the picture of the tranny correctly it looks like they were screwing it up when upshifting not down shifting based on how it looks worn. I am no motorcycle mechanic, however, so I could be reading the picture incorrectly. I am just an industrial Mechanic.

Once again, I would like to hear what the circustances were that led to the damage shown in the photo. I am open minded and am all ears on this. When I clutchless upshift(especially on the CBR), it is so effortless(much less than on a clutched upshift) and virtually no resistance felt that I find it hard to believe any damage is being done. Most experts seem to agree with this.

Quite frankly, the photo does not really prove anything without some documentation(or at least an honest explanation) of what happened. It could have been a result of a serious abuse or a SNAFU, who knows??

If you were teaching an off-road class the proper technique for lofting the front up to clear a log and I came to you with a photo of a CBR900RR engine that spun the #3 bearing from a stunt rider doing a 1/4 mile stand-up on a regular basis, and told you lofting the front end caused this, what are you going to tell me??

The defense rests. I ask the prosecution to come up with some incriminating evidence and proof to prove me wrong. That photos of unknown origin and unknown circumstances with no explanation proves nothing.

[Sev]

Regardless, I've got physical proof that clutchless shifting is bad for your transmission.

I've asked you a few times if this is your bike and if so what happend. If it is not your bike then who's is it and what was the circumstances surrounding it. You have yet to answer me. If you alledgedly have concrete proof, then I'm all ears(or eyes).

He is a mechanic so most likely its not his but other squids that think clutchless shifting on a normal everyday bike is fine.

*edit

wtf I went back to the first page and right there sev shows proof of what clutchless shifting can cause. you just ruined all hope of anyone taking you seriously now.

If I am looking/reading the picture of the tranny correctly it looks like they were screwing it up when upshifting not down shifting based on how it looks worn. I am no motorcycle mechanic, however, so I could be reading the picture incorrectly. I am just an industrial Mechanic.

Once again, I would like to hear what the circustances were that led to the damage shown in the photo. I am open minded and am all ears on this. When I clutchless upshift(especially on the CBR), it is so effortless(much less than on a clutched upshift) and virtually no resistance felt that I find it hard to believe any damage is being done. Most experts seem to agree with this.

Quite frankly, the photo does not really prove anything without some documentation(or at least an honest explanation) of what happened. It could have been a result of a serious abuse or a SNAFU, who knows??

If you were teaching an off-road class the proper technique for lofting the front up to clear a log and I came to you with a photo of a CBR900RR engine that spun the #3 bearing from a stunt rider doing a 1/4 mile stand-up on a regular basis, and told you lofting the front end caused this, what are you going to tell me??

The defense rests. I ask the prosecution to come up with some incriminating evidence and proof to prove me wrong. That photos of unknown origin and unknown circumstances with no explanation proves nothing.

Customer's GSX-R he was clutchless upshifting between 2 and 3 when it happened. BOOM.

The defense chooses to ignore arguments that are contradictory to his point of view.

[HYPERR]

The defense chooses to ignore arguments that are contradictory to his point of view.

Sev, that simply is not true. I am always willing to learn and concede.

So are you telling me that this guy perfromed a properly executed clutchless upshift and it resulted in this??

Or is this a result of prolonged abuse and the straw that happened to break the camel's back was this botched clutchless upshift?

Sev, I am not arguing that poorly performed or botched clutchless upshifts is not harmful. It certainly is.

My argument is simply this: "Properly executed clutchless upshifts results in an incredibly smooth and quiet upshifts that to me adds to the enjoyment of the ride. Furthermore, based on my own experience as well as many reliable sources, causes no extra wear and tear to the gears and obviously causes no wear to the clutch."

Anytime a gear is forced or grinded, it should result in excess noise or resistance, correct? Please answer this question. Why is it that when I perform a clutchless upshift, it results in virtually no resistance or noise whatsoever and goes into gear far smoother than with the clutch? I am not being a wiseguy here. I am truly curious to hear your opinion as a mechanic.

[MrShake]

It seems to me that you are fishing for someone to tell you its ok. Your not getting that answer, so you keep fishing.

This thread seems to be very clear, cut and dry, black and white. And the conclusion is that its not a good idea.

However, that being said... its your bike, you do whatever you want. I'm sure some mechanic will happily allow you to pay him/her to fix your tranny if/when it fails.

Its your money, your bike, your choice. Stop fishing for the answer you want.

[HYPERR]

It seems to me that you are fishing for someone to tell you its ok. Your not getting that answer, so you keep fishing.

No the opposite. I am "fishing" for someone to tell me why a properly executed clutchless upshift is bad.

This thread seems to be very clear, cut and dry, black and white. And the conclusion is that its not a good idea.

Not true. There are opinions from both sides. I have posted a article from Sports Rider agreeing with me. How is this thread cut and dry? As for your opinion, I don't know you and you don't know me. For all I know, you could be Kevin Cameron or Shoichiro Irimajiri. However until you prove me that you are someone of that caliber, I am more likely to believe Sports Rider over you, nothing personal.

I'm sure some mechanic will happily allow you to pay him/her to fix your tranny if/when it fails.

Thanks but I like to work on my own bike.

Its your money, your bike, your choice. Stop fishing for the answer you want.

Did you even read what I wrote?

[Johnj]

Did you even read what I wrote?

Fourteen times.

[HYPERR]

Did you even read what I wrote?

Fourteen times.

Thanks John. I'm flattered.

[Fast Eddy B]

So are you telling me that this guy perfromed a properly executed clutchless upshift and it resulted in this??

Or is this a result of prolonged abuse and the straw that happened to break the camel's back was this botched clutchless upshift?

Circular logic, repeated. Again.