"Oops", how do I get out of this pickle?

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ErnCol · #11 Unread post by **ErnCol** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:14 pm

Hey, Thanks folks. I been out on the dirt, but not too much. Your techniques are working just fine

Again, thanks.
ErnCol

Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:49 am

and use your handlebars to steer....leaning can be a problem if its loose stuff.

#13 Unread post by **sv-wolf** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:48 am

I'm pretty much a novice at this, but as I've had a lot of fun riding road bikes in the dirt I'll just say that most of the advice already given here fits in with my own experience.

You can and should use the front brake as needed - but very gently. The back brake is generally more useful, but careless use of it can have you down just as fast. If you are in the right gear (first or second for most practical purposes depending on the bike) then you will have less need to use either.

You need to keep on the throttle to get you out of trouble. That's especially true when crossing water, I've found. Too much throttle, however, means that if you hit a rock you will go down just that much harder. 'Ouch!'

Standing up on the pegs and taking your weight fully forward so that the back wheel can skitter about how it likes works on a road bike almost as well as it does on a dirt bike. On highly potholed or cross-rutted 'roads' though, taking your weight right back and gunning the bike is a real hoot - so long as you do not have expensive suspension to maintain. (I'm assuming you are riding a fairly tough bit of metal.)

Target fixation is as big a problem off road as it is on. Look well ahead, chosing your path confidently in advance so you don't have to keep checking out what is directly in front of your wheel.

My most usual means of coping with dirt riding, however, is to fall off. So you should review these comments in this light.

cruiserV · Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:19 pm

Zagnut wrote:Do things slow and easy. If your going straight, not too slow...a little speed will give you a bit more stability than going too slow....kinda ride over the gravel rather than through it.
If you are turning, do it slow and easy and maybe even keep your feet down or at least ready to be put down quickly as stabilizers.... and dont even think about using the front brake!...back brake only!... Grabbing front brake in gravel will drop you like a hot potato.

+100 on the front brake. I have seen more people bust their a$$ by using the front brake in loose ground, i.e. gravel, sand, dirt, rock, etc. I know thats what they teach you in MSF, but remember MSF has a purpose to teach new or non riders how to drive a motorcycle in a parking lot. It's good for those who need that, but my issue with it is they DO NOT make you ready to face the beast on the public roads. That is the beast to master, the slab. Ride safe...

#15 Unread post by **Skier** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:50 pm

I am absolutely amazed riders still don't think the front brake should be used, even in low-traction scenarios. It's still providing a vast majority of braking force and it's a good plan to ignore it?

Boggling.

ofblong · #16 Unread post by **ofblong** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:07 pm

cruiserV wrote:
Zagnut wrote:Do things slow and easy. If your going straight, not too slow...a little speed will give you a bit more stability than going too slow....kinda ride over the gravel rather than through it.
If you are turning, do it slow and easy and maybe even keep your feet down or at least ready to be put down quickly as stabilizers.... and dont even think about using the front brake!...back brake only!... Grabbing front brake in gravel will drop you like a hot potato.
+100 on the front brake. I have seen more people bust their a$$ by using the front brake in loose ground, i.e. gravel, sand, dirt, rock, etc. I know thats what they teach you in MSF, but remember MSF has a purpose to teach new or non riders how to drive a motorcycle in a parking lot. It's good for those who need that, but my issue with it is they DO NOT make you ready to face the beast on the public roads. That is the beast to master, the slab. Ride safe...

lol you obviously dont know anything about the MSF then. They teach you how to avoid problems AT SLOW SPEED on the road. Go ahead dont use that front brake and only use the back. we will be laughing when you fall on your arse.

Also you NEVER drive a motorcycle because that will cause you to get into an accident. You RIDE a motorcycle. This is just like the swerving thread. My wife swerved to miss a deer and caused lots 0 damage but she still thinks she did the right thing by swerving instead of staying straight. She has had at least 20 people tell her swerving is bad. But all it took was for 1 person (one of her best friends dad's) who thinks he knows everything to say it was the right thing to do to make her think that she did the right thing. Hell the guy even told her what was wrong with the blinker on my van. Said the bulb was burned out and he hadnt even seen the thing. Bulb isnt burned out the wiring got shorted because it got wet. I know because I looked at it to see if it was just the bulb but didnt tell her I had looked at it. I just dont have the $320 to get the parts so I can replair it.

sorry for the rant. I get irritated when people think they know everything and they havent even looked at the thing. People always come to me to ask how to fix their computer. They tell me what is wrong and I give them a couple ideas but I always say without looking at it in person I am not positive.

Lisa · #17 Unread post by **Lisa** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:14 am

Skier wrote:I am absolutely amazed riders still don't think the front brake should be used, even in low-traction scenarios. It's still providing a vast majority of braking force and it's a good plan to ignore it?

Boggling.

our licence tests can't be passed with just the back brake, and since 80% of your braking power comes off the front you would think people would learn how to use it. I had one old biker tell me if I needed to make an emergancy stop that i should lock up the back put it in a slide and jump off the bike. WTF? doesn't that leave me bikeless and out in the middle of traffic? I think most problems with the front brake are people just don't know how to use them and do a full on method of braking

Zagnut · #18 Unread post by **Zagnut** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:55 am

Avoiding the front brake is silly. Grabbing the front brake on any surface will "drop you like a hot potato." Use it but use it properly.

Skier, the pic you posted is not a gravel road...its a hard packed dirt road and I have traveled many of them and I use the front and back brakes simultaneously when stopping or slowing on them. however...when turning in loose gravel as I stated in my earlier post...

I still say lay off the front brake...not much "braking force" is needed when turning in loose gravel at slow speeds. I would venture to say that most if not all street bike riders don't do much turning at 50 mph in a loose gravel parking lot therefore maximum braking force isn't needed to scrub off speed

the only time Ive ever dropped my current bike was turning into a loose gravel parking lot and I was slowing with both front and back brakes like I normally do....bike upright in a wide turn..and my front tire slipped out

I use my front brake all the time...unless Im in loose gravel, in fact many times I slow down or stop with only my front brake. You would be hard pressed to get my bike to drop using the front brake on concrete..unless maybe it was wet. My front brake does the lions share of all my stopping on the road

In loose gravel, I use the back brake gently and never have a sliding problem. If however, my back tire should start to slip.. its much easier to steer through a back tire slipping than a front one.. and Im not talking high side speeds here ...

Go ahead dont use that front brake and only use the back. we will be laughing when you fall on your arse.

You go ahead and use your front brake turning around in a flex base parking lot, Oblong.. and I'll try not to laugh my azz off as I help you lift your bike up off the ground....after all that would be rude wouldn't it?
.

#19 Unread post by **dr_bar** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:17 am

Apparently, you're both commenting on different scenarios so ease up.

I never use my front brake in a turn, it's silly thing to do, but then I also try not to use the back either... lol.

In loose gravel, yes I use my front brake on the straight, but I would never grab a handful of the front in that situation.

When riding in loose gravel, try not to "Steer" the bike, hold the bars loosely and let your bike "find" it's own way. Too much input can supply you with a serious rash to remember it by...

ofblong · #20 Unread post by **ofblong** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:55 am

Zagnut wrote:
Avoiding the front brake is silly. Grabbing the front brake on any surface will "drop you like a hot potato." Use it but use it properly.
Skier, the pic you posted is not a gravel road...its a hard packed dirt road and I have traveled many of them and I use the front and back brakes simultaneously when stopping or slowing on them. however...when turning in loose gravel as I stated in my earlier post...

I still say lay off the front brake...not much "braking force" is needed when turning in loose gravel at slow speeds. I would venture to say that most if not all street bike riders don't do much turning at 50 mph in a loose gravel parking lot therefore maximum braking force isn't needed to scrub off speed

the only time Ive ever dropped my current bike was turning into a loose gravel parking lot and I was slowing with both front and back brakes like I normally do....bike upright in a wide turn..and my front tire slipped out

I use my front brake all the time...unless Im in loose gravel, in fact many times I slow down or stop with only my front brake. You would be hard pressed to get my bike to drop using the front brake on concrete..unless maybe it was wet. My front brake does the lions share of all my stopping on the road

In loose gravel, I use the back brake gently and never have a sliding problem. If however, my back tire should start to slip.. its much easier to steer through a back tire slipping than a front one.. and Im not talking high side speeds here ...

Go ahead dont use that front brake and only use the back. we will be laughing when you fall on your arse.
You go ahead and use your front brake turning around in a flex base parking lot, Oblong.. and I'll try not to laugh my azz off as I help you lift your bike up off the ground....after all that would be rude wouldn't it?
.

use any of your brakes while turning is asking for disaster be it on a smooth cement road or gravel.