Ethics, Motorcycle Dealerships and Motorcyclists

[dr_bar]

I kinda like laying blame...

• The manufacturer, for producing a vehicle that is capable of far exceeding any legal speed limit in the country.
• The dealership, for offering for sale said vehicle.
• The saleman, for not exercising morals and selling said vehicle to dimwit.
• The deceased, for purchasing a vehicle that was way out of his league, and not having the license or training needed to control said vehicle.
• The parents, for failing to drill into their child's head the common sense required to survive past his 21st birthday.

Did I miss anybody???

[mydlyfkryzis]

...For example the article talks about these high-powered bikes as not having speed governors. I know for a fact if it was a new bike that was a super sport - it certainly would have a speed limiter. It could however have been an older super sport bike without such a regulator in place...

The speed regulator on a new super sport is set for 186 MPH. This was from pressure by the European community.

I don't think this would of changed anything.

I don't know of any adult motorcycle with any kind of speed regulator. Some bikes have a little power reduction in first gear to reduce wheelspin, but that's about it. All modern bikes have Rev Limiters to prevent going over the redline and destroying the engine. Maybe that is what you are thinking of?

[ofblong]

...For example the article talks about these high-powered bikes as not having speed governors. I know for a fact if it was a new bike that was a super sport - it certainly would have a speed limiter. It could however have been an older super sport bike without such a regulator in place...

The speed regulator on a new super sport is set for 186 MPH. This was from pressure by the European community.

I don't think this would of changed anything.

I don't know of any adult motorcycle with any kind of speed regulator. Some bikes have a little power reduction in first gear to reduce wheelspin, but that's about it. All modern bikes have Rev Limiters to prevent going over the redline and destroying the engine. Maybe that is what you are thinking of?

yup friend of mine his bike limits at 186mph. He has hit that limit as well.

[radak5osu]

I think that the only person responsible for that man's death is himself. The dealership and salespeople are there to sell you a product and make money. It is not their responsibility to take the time to assess someone's ability before selling them a bike and, quite frankly, I wouldn't trust a lot of the things that salespeople try to tell you.

Should the people at McDonald's give you a physical before selling you a Big Mac? No, but a heart attack will kill you just as fast as a bike can. McDonald's is trying to make money and it's your responsibility to take care of your health.

Laws should prevent you from infringing on the rights of others. The only person whose rights were violated here were the driver of the truck that was damaged in the accident, and that's why we require insurance (and why it sucks to have an accident with an uninsured driver).

As mentioned earlier, this is a case of people trying to push the blame onto someone else because they can't deal with the fact that their son/friend screwed up. It really is a terrible tragedy and I hope that reading the story will prevent others from the same mistake, but in the end the rider screwed up and he payed for it.

[mydlyfkryzis]

I have a better idea on how to prevent accidents like this. Rather than punish a dealer for selling that which he sells, I propose all potential buyer need to get my approval before buying a motorcycle. After an extensive interview, I will render judgment, I.E: A> This person is normal and can buy their motorcycle of choice or B> This person is an idiot and should not be allowed to buy or ride.

I have no other qualifications other than I know an idiot when I see one.

Oh, and of course, I would expect a nominal fee.

[RhadamYgg]

20 year old goes to Sears, buys a table saw. Sears salesperson doesn't ask if he knows how to use it, just sells it to him. Goes home, uses it, has an accident, cuts off a hand, bleeds to death before he can control the bleeding.

Should we blacklist that Sears store? I don't think so. As a matter of fact, that sounds kinda dumb, doesn't it?

I agree with Flynrider.

I'm not going to boycott any dealer who, in their struggle to cover overhead and stay in business, may not have gotten the exact shades of gray correct and made the correct judgement call. It's not a black and white issue. How low a skill level in a rider? How powerful a motorcycle? You can kill yourself easily on a 150cc scooter for that matter....

I'm sorry this mother lost her son...... but it's too damned bad she wants everyone except him and herself to be responsible for his lack of judgement. As the article said, "he turned around to smile at his friends." The numbnut couldn't even look where he was going, and this is somehow the dealer's or the manufacturer's fault?

The likelyhood of someone killing themselves within 30 seconds of starting a table saw is significantly smaller than riding a supersport bike.

Certainly, anyone can kill themselves on a 150cc scooter or for that matter a pot with 1" depth of water.

What we are talking about is that the dealer/salesperson knows that the product is dangerous in anything less than experienced hands. The dealer knows that this isn't a tractor-trailer truck being bought by an unlicensed individual for a business that will be driven by someone else. They know that the individual in front of them will be riding the motorcycle that they are selling (unless it was a gift for someone else, but I don't think anyone would recommend buying a bike as a gift given the particular nature of people when they finally sit on a bike).

You have to have a license in order to purchase a gun. A gun can be dangerous in inexperienced hands. It is no different with a supersport bike.

Europe, already has laws regarding cars. You need to have a specific license to ride a car with incredible horsepower. This is no different.

With all that, I'm not really arguing for laws in this matter.

But I am interested in establishing bikers that will live for the hobby and vehicle rather than die from it.

Understanding that bikes have a lot of horsepower for their weight and actually internalizing that and knowing what will happen when you tromp on the throttle are two different things. A knowledge that people don't come with inherently and a knowledge that most certainly, if the dealer and salesperson know their product - they know there is difference in these kinds of knowledge.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

This kid had no respect for the laws to start with.....do you really think he would have repsected a law that would prevent him from buying that powerful bike?
Nope.
I don't know how it's done in the states.....but here in Canada....you cannot ride the bike off the lot without first having purchased insurance. And....you cannot purchase insurance without a valid license.

Did someone else purchase the bike for him?

You see, that is something I don't understand either. Like I mentioned previously, I've been purchasing cars or involved in the purchase of cars for 20 years.

In no case was I ever allowed to purchase a car without a driver's license and proof of insurance. If anything, these requirements have become stronger.

For example, when I bought cars earlier, all I had to do was show I had a valid insurance card. Now, I have to have a card with the current cars information on it (requires a call to the insurance company and them faxing to the car dealer the updated insurance card).

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

What has happened to personal responsibility? Why is the first reaction to a bad decision to find who it can be blamed on?

Should dealers exercise a little more responsibility in fitting the bike to the buyer? Probably.

Should there be a law restricting the sales of "dangerous" motorcycles to "inexperienced" rider? Absolutely not. That is bad on so many levels.

Who's going to define "dangerous" and "inexperienced"? What happens when inexperienced is defined as 1 year today and then in 3 years the definition (and law) changes to 5 years?

I am tired of the government deciding they know what is best for me. I may agree with the general idea of the law but I resent the fact that I am forced into it. Case in point - seat belts and helmets. I'd wear them anyway but resent being told by my nanny government to do it or else.

As for bad decisions and personal responsibility, anyone want to buy a Wall Street bank?

Personal responsibility is great. But so is being informed about what you are doing.

Look at it this way - most of us at TMW understand and have a full knowledge of what we are doing if we decide to buy a supersport bike. We may still get killed by it, but we have full knowledge of what we are doing - as we are all experienced riders.

People that admire bikes and want one, but don't own one and just have an idea of what a motorcycle is and are in love with it - don't necessarily have this knowledge. They wander in to a dealer and they talk it up and the salesperson sells them the Hayabusa or whatever.

A new lifelong rider is born, and this is great. But unfortunately, they die and in their first ride or two. They don't buy any more bikes in the future so less sales there. There are fewer motorcycles out there in the world instead of more and this affects us as a group politically. And not only that, but the perception that motorcycles are inherently dangerous is propagated and makes it more likely that laws will legislate motorcycling completely out of existence.

Unless we come up with a mechanism to deal with this kind of unethical behavior, it will be our future that is in question, and not those few foolish riders that have more confidence than real-world skill hopping on a bike and getting killed.

As far as skills determination - I think a skills test would be all that is required. Some people have lots of skills at 1 year riding, some don't after riding for 5 years.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

...For example the article talks about these high-powered bikes as not having speed governors. I know for a fact if it was a new bike that was a super sport - it certainly would have a speed limiter. It could however have been an older super sport bike without such a regulator in place...

The speed regulator on a new super sport is set for 186 MPH. This was from pressure by the European community.

I don't think this would of changed anything.

I don't know of any adult motorcycle with any kind of speed regulator. Some bikes have a little power reduction in first gear to reduce wheelspin, but that's about it. All modern bikes have Rev Limiters to prevent going over the redline and destroying the engine. Maybe that is what you are thinking of?

Holy Schnikies. 186! Yeah, I'm sure this kid probably wasn't even doing 80 when he hit. Local roads, rapid acceleration.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

...For example the article talks about these high-powered bikes as not having speed governors. I know for a fact if it was a new bike that was a super sport - it certainly would have a speed limiter. It could however have been an older super sport bike without such a regulator in place...

The speed regulator on a new super sport is set for 186 MPH. This was from pressure by the European community.

I don't think this would of changed anything.

I don't know of any adult motorcycle with any kind of speed regulator. Some bikes have a little power reduction in first gear to reduce wheelspin, but that's about it. All modern bikes have Rev Limiters to prevent going over the redline and destroying the engine. Maybe that is what you are thinking of?

yup friend of mine his bike limits at 186mph. He has hit that limit as well.

Damn! I couldn't imagine. I've only gone 110 in my Civic a couple of times and the fastest I've ridden my bike is 90. Hit big bumps on route 80 while doing 90, too. Let's just say bikes in general are very stable, the suspension in my Ninja 250 does crap for damping bumps at 90 and I managed to not fall of and not get so scared that I wouldn't ride the bike again.

But I'm not going to ride 90 on roads that I haven't ridden many times again, that's for sure.

I couldn't imagine 186.

RhadamYgg