Should scooter riders require MSF training?

[sunshine229]

I've always been baffled that any person with a regular car driver's license can ride a scooter (up to 50 cc), without any formal training. Here are some points:

Why does a 4-wheeled license signify that a person can drive on 2 wheels?
Isn't manouever training on two wheels important? Such as accelerating through a curve, making sharp turns, starting on a hill?
Don't scooter riders need to understand emergency swerving and stopping? How about counter steering?
If a scooter rider doesn't take training how do they first learn about proper riding gear?

Perhaps they shouldn't have to go through proper motorcycle MSF training but a shorter course designed just for scooters.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

[Thumper]

After watching a bunch of obviously brand new Vespa riders wobbling across city streets yesterday...oh yeah, they need to be required to get a license specific to two wheel transportation. I was amazed at how scary (and scared) they looked...and I wondered how many of them would still be on their shiny scooters a month from now. Even stopped at lights...smack in the middle of the bumper of the car ahead of them, inches to spare, leaving no room to save their own asterisks if something jets up behind them.

CA does have a requirement for an M2 license for little scooters (as opposed to the M1 for over 50cc) but I don't think many people take it seriously enough to actually get it.

[pchast]

I think you need to define scooter more.

We have a 50cc 'moped' its lucky to get up to 28mph. I can go faster on a bicycle. Should you need the msf for that bicycle? Anything bigger requires a Motorcycle license in NYS. But they still dont 'require' the MSF course. I personally believe that M endorsement should.

[jstark47]

In NJ, we're a little different. (Awright, no wisecracks!!!) We have two kinds of motorized two-wheel vehicle: mopeds and motorcycles. A moped is defined as a pedal bicycle with a helper motor, not to exceed 50 cc and 1.5 horsepower, and not capable of exceeding 25 mph on a flat surface.

If it has two wheels and a motor and it doesn't fit the moped definition, it's a motorcycle, and one needs a motorcycle license to operate it. 100% of scooters sold now, including the 49cc models, are considered motorcycles in NJ. Next door in Pennsylvania, scooters less than 50cc don't require licenses. But not so here.

[storysunfolding]

The MSF Basic RiderCourse operates at speeds under 20 mph which pretty much all scooters go. There are idiosyncratic features to two wheeled vehicles and different strategies for staying safe. I think it would be in any two wheeled operators best interest to take the course. In Va we teach both a scooter school and allow scooters into the BRC so it's out there if anyone needs it.

In Va we don't have a definition for scooter. If it has two wheels and a motor, it's a motorcycle. However, anything under 50cc that doesn't go over 30 mph doesn't need a plate, insurance or a license to operate. The funny thing is that if the cop clocks you at 35 mph downhill- the fines are enormous!

[dean owens]

well, i'm one of the two who voted no and i'll share why.

if the question had been "do you think it's wise for a scooter rider to take a brc?" i would have said yes. but it's worded as though they can't get on one unless they take a mandatory brc. we don't even have that strict of a rule for motorcycles. i can't ask scooters to do more than we require of motorcycles. shoot, you don't have to take a driving course to get a drivers license... just past a written and road test.

maybe you'd say, "since we expect those operating a motorcycle to have a license, shouldn't we require the same of those on scooters?" i would then ask for a definition of a scooter. much like VA, our law is that if it goes above 35 mph then you have to do all the same stuff you'd do for a motorcycle. at some point there has to be a cutoff. you can't say that everything that has a motor has to have a licensed operator. i've seen little kids standup razor scooters that have a motor. they don't go that fast. i know it's not the same... but it goes to my point of having a cutoff. or the guy in the retirement home across the street who rides his motorized scooter (chair) on the road every day because it's the only way he has to get to out and get to the corner store.

you might then say, "but they are on the road with cars and trucks." so are bicycles and we don't require any training or license for them. and i think they're crazier then us and the scooters.

again... is it a good idea? yes. would they be wise to do so? yes. should it be required? no.

[sunshine229]

Wow, exceptional response "dean owen".

You are right - I wouldn't want scooter riders to do more than motorcycle riders are expected to do. In light of that, I would like to see MSF courses for both motorcycles and scooters become mandatory as well as forcing scooter riders to obtain a similar type of license required for a motorcycle.

For example, in the UK a person can get two different car licenses - manual or automatic. If you have a manual license you can drive either. If you have an automatic license you can only drive an automatic. So, you could apply the same logic and allow motorcycle riders to get a full motorcycle license while a scooter rider could apply for an automatic motorcycle license. Both would require an MSF.

But that would be in a perfect world (or at least a world run by me...lol)

[blues2cruise]

Given the shenanigans I see on the roads by scooter riders....yes...there should be some kind of manadatory "enlightenment" program before they are allowed on the roads. (I am referring to people who have never ridden on 2 wheels)

[csspostal]

Given the shenanigans I see on the roads by scooter riders....yes...there should be some kind of manadatory "enlightenment" program before they are allowed on the roads. (I am referring to people who have never ridden on 2 wheels)

I think a system similar to the Brits limited CC size during your learners periods and a mandatory safety course for all new drivers.

[shaun64]

I was riding to work this morning and saw a bike in the not too far off distance in front of me. As I got closer, it looked as if the rider had both legs hanging down (instead of resting his feet on the pegs) - why is he doing that I thought..

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