Toyota - now that the damage is done

[dr_bar]

Same thing happened to Audi in the 80's, with the same result; no conclusive proof of fault on the part of the manufacturer, but a hell of a lot of rep damage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended ... #Audi_5000

I was going to bring the audi thing up myself, The strange thing, there was some truth to the problem. My brother had a 5000 and had a scary moment in the mountains of northern BC. The throttle accelerated rapidly without imput and almost caused a serious accident. It only lasted a brief moment, but was scary just the same. It only happened the one time and Audi did a thorough check up on the car when my Bro got into Vancouver... He loved that car right up until he got his next new vehicle...

[James-ER]

many years back i was the first victim of this!! ha, only half kidding. i had an 03 camry and the pedal itself was stuck under something that had come loose under the dash. it took me only a moment to stomp on my brakes then turn the car off. as for this latest scam, there is no reason this should have been an issue. maybe when everything is super fancy and gas pedals send a signals to increase throttle digitally there could be some tech issue with things not computing right, but even then i doubt it. there are too many ways to stop a vehicle for people to have actually had an issue with these cars.



J

[JVRR]

Anyone who holds this against Toyota and would avoid them, has never owned an American car. My family has owned in recent history... Two Toyotas, one Honda, one Chevrolet, one Ford, and a little farther back, a Mazda.

Without a doubt in my mind the first place I would go for a car, used or new, would be Toyota. Honda would be second, and I would have to be filthy rich to spend money to drive a Ford or Chevrolet again. Part of the hope with getting the bike was I can retire my Chevy and hopefully offload it this summer on someone who has the time, money, and patience... because I sure as heck don't.

No doubt about it, my Monte Carlo is one of the most comfortable and just cool cars I've ever been in. But there is not a trip to the mechanic where I am not kicking myself for passing on the Corolla or even Civic!

[Kingshead]

The throttle on the prius is computer controlled and their next big idiotic idea is drive by wire. What idiot thought this would be a good idea? Haven't they ever played a video game where the controls acted up? When building to a price point and maintenance is left to the consumer (unlike the militaries fly by wire systems) these technologies will always eventually fail with catastrophic results.

I realise these throttle cases were mostly scam artists, and those that were not are the result of idiot drivers, but what happens when your steering stops working or works in reverse?

Martin

[High_Side]

If fly by wire can be reliable in a passenger jet, why not a Corolla?

[Kingshead]

If fly by wire can be reliable in a passenger jet, why not a Corolla?

Planes are subject to more stringent maintenance requirements, your car is subject to none.

Martin

[High_Side]

If fly by wire can be reliable in a passenger jet, why not a Corolla?

Planes are subject to more stringent maintenance requirements, your car is subject to none.

Martin

I find it difficult to believe that you would feel that fly by wire would require more maintenance than the alternative. With less moving parts and modern electronics it really should be a non-issue and be a better option for car owners who do no maintenance...

[totalmotorcycle]

I don't know if this is part of the "fly-by-wire" comment but...


With Hacking, Music Can Take Control of Your Car
By Robert McMillan, IDG News


Researchers at the University of California, San Diego, and the University of Washington have spent the past two years combing through the myriad computer systems in late-model cars, looking for security flaws and developing ways to misuse them. In a new paper, they say they've identified a handful of ways a hacker could break into a car, including attacks over the car's Bluetooth and cellular network systems, or through malicious software in the diagnostic tools used in automotive repair shops.

But their most interesting attack focused on the car stereo. By adding extra code to a digital music file, they were able to turn a song burned to CD into a Trojan horse. When played on the car's stereo, this song could alter the firmware of the car's stereo system, giving attackers an entry point to change other components on the car. This type of attack could be spread on file-sharing networks without arousing suspicion, they believe. "It's hard to think of something more innocuous than a song," said Stefan Savage, a professor at the University of California.

Last year Savage and his fellow researchers described the inner workings of the networks of components found in today's cars, and they described a 2009 experiment in which they were able to kill the engine, lock the doors, turn off the brakes and falsify speedometer readings on a late-model car.

In that experiment, they had to plug a laptop into the car's internal diagnostic system in order to install their malicious code. In this latest paper, the objective was to find a way to break into the car remotely. "This paper is really about how challenging is it to gain that access from the outside," Savage said.

They found lots of ways to break in. In fact, attacks over Bluetooth, the cellular network, malicious music files and via the diagnostic tools used in dealerships were all possible, if difficult to pull off, Savage said. "The easiest way remains what we did in our first paper: Plug into the car and do it," he said.

But the research shows how completely new types of automotive attacks could be on the horizon. For example, thieves could instruct cars to unlock their doors and report their GPS coordinates and Vehicle Identification Numbers to a central server. "An enterprising thief might stop stealing cars himself, and instead sell his capabilities as a service to other thieves," Savage said. A thief looking for certain kinds of cars in a given area could ask to have them identified and unlocked, he said.

In their report, the researchers don't name the make of the 2009 model car they hacked.

Savage and the other researchers presented their work to the National Academy of Sciences Committee on Electronic Vehicle Controls and Unintended Acceleration, which is studying the safety of electronic automotive systems in the wake of last year's massive Toyota recall. That recall was prompted by reports of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles, a problem that was once thought to have been connected to electronic systems but ultimately was blamed on floor mats, sticky gas pedals and driver error.

With the high technical barrier to entry, the researchers believe that hacker attacks on cars will be very difficult to pull off, but they say they want to make the auto industry aware of potential problems before they become pervasive.

Car hacking is "unlikely to happen in the future," said Tadayoshi Kohno, an assistant professor with the University of Washington who worked on the project. "But I think the average customer will want to know whether the car they buy in five years ... will have these issues mitigated."

Another problem for would-be car thieves is the fact that there are significant differences among the electronic control units in cars. Even though an attack might work on one year and model of vehicle, it's unlikely to work on another. "If you're going to hack into one of them, you have to spend a lot of time, money and resources to get into one software version," said Brian Herron, vice president of Drew Technologies, an Ann Arbor, Michigan, company that builds tools for automotive computer systems. "It's not like hacking Windows, where you find a vulnerability and go after it."

So far, carmakers have been very receptive to the university researchers' work and appear to be taking the security issues they've raised very seriously, Savage and Kohno said.

[Kingshead]

If fly by wire can be reliable in a passenger jet, why not a Corolla?

Planes are subject to more stringent maintenance requirements, your car is subject to none.

Martin

I find it difficult to believe that you would feel that fly by wire would require more maintenance than the alternative. With less moving parts and modern electronics it really should be a non-issue and be a better option for car owners who do no maintenance...

Ever play a video game and have the control act out of character?

When mechanical controls fail it's usually to an off position, not the opposite of the intended response. Imagine turning the wheel right on a mountain road and the electronic impulse turning the wheels left, catastrophic results I imagine. The major problem is there would be absolutely no warning beforehand as a mechanical malfunction in the steering would most likely be felt long before complete failure occured.

Martin

Martin

[High_Side]

If fly by wire can be reliable in a passenger jet, why not a Corolla?

Planes are subject to more stringent maintenance requirements, your car is subject to none.

Martin

I find it difficult to believe that you would feel that fly by wire would require more maintenance than the alternative. With less moving parts and modern electronics it really should be a non-issue and be a better option for car owners who do no maintenance...

Ever play a video game and have the control act out of character?

When mechanical controls fail it's usually to an off position, not the opposite of the intended response. Imagine turning the wheel right on a mountain road and the electronic impulse turning the wheels left, catastrophic results I imagine. The major problem is there would be absolutely no warning beforehand as a mechanical malfunction in the steering would most likely be felt long before complete failure occured.

Martin

Martin

Really? That's like saying "ever go fishing with a Mikey Mouse fishing rod and have the line break?". A video game built with the lowest cost in mind really has no risk to it and is built to match. As a prime example there's a reason why modern chemical plants and refineries (where I work for a living) have switched to electronic controls for such critical pieces of equipment as critical steam turbine governor controls and process safety shut-down systems. You build in triple redundancy to the electronics and your systems are far more reliable than the mechanical alternative. You build them to be fail safe. Like a broken throttle cable. And it's far less likely to get stuck like a throttle cable. It's proven. That's why industry is switching to far more reliable and fail safe systems. This isn't some modern electronic voodoo. This is proven and tested technology that is far more reliable than the technology that it replaced.