ABS, Traction Control, etc.

[High_Side]

In order to pull this discussion out of the Harley thread, this thread will discuss the merits or downsides of electronic aids for motorcyclists. Are they beneficial or a hazard? Would you pay the extra to have them when buying a new bike? Can you do better than a computer? Are they evil and dangerous?

Discuss.

[Gummiente]

As a self-described Renaissance Man, I find the intrusion of technology into anything and everything that I enjoy to be bothersome and annoying. I like to do things MY way by MYSELF, without any little soulless computer chip "enhancing" the experience and making things safer for me. I firmly believe in Natural Selection, btw.

However, I've found that as I get older I've begun to appreciate said technology and find that in most cases it actually makes things better. I was very reluctant and unsure the first time I bought a bike with EFI, for example, now I wouldn't buy one without it. I've had ABS on my last three 4-wheeled vehicles and am quite happy with the way it has performed - on more than one occasion it has helped me maintain control in a panic stop. The wife had a Mercury Cougar with Traction Control a few years back and I was rather impressed with the way that worked in winter driving conditions. Now she has it on her zippy little Subaru Impreza and that little sucker is better in the snow than my Jeep Liberty.

But I have yet to experience a motorcycle with ABS and Traction Control systems and as I'm quite satisfied with my current ride it's unlikely I'll purchase a new bike with this technology on it any time in the near future. However, if/when I do update my two wheeled mode of trnsportation, I'll have no issues if it comes standard with these systems on it. Years of driving 4-wheelers (and more recently, a big jeezus 18-wheeler) have convinced me that these systems are effective and do not detract in any way from the driving experience. Okay, the Traction Control ticked me off a few times when it wouldn't let me do burnouts from a standing start, but at my age I probably shouldn't be doing that sort of thing anyway.

So... are they beneficial? Yes. Would I pay extra to have them on a bike? Most probably. Can I do better than a computer? I have to put my ego aside and answer "no" to this one. Are they evil and dangerous? No.

[Grey Thumper]

I'm a firm believer in ABS (my car and bike both have it). As a matter of principle though, I think ABS should be a cost option, and should not be standardized because of some government regulation (or even because the manufacturer wants it standard).

That said, ABS is the only form of electronic assistance I'm willing to pay for, because it comes into play to deal with the unexpected. Most everything else involves a situation you can predict and prepare for. If you're in a riding environment which might warrant traction control for instance, isn't it far simpler and cheaper to just slow the heck down? Isn't it more efficient to check your tire pressures before you even get on the bike? Don't you know in advance that you're going to carry a pillion and/or luggage? Traction control, electronic throttle control, electronically adjustable suspension, tire pressure monitoring - IMHO all these are unnecessary in a street riding environment, since they're overly complicated solutions that for some reason have come about even though far simpler options already exist.

[Wrider]

Is ABS evil? No.
Is it better at stopping than your average human? Most definitely.
Should it be mandated? Heck no.
My 2001 Dakota had ABS as an option. The non-ABS ones came with "rear only" ABS standard because it was mandated. I'll tell you that the rear only is absolutely useless as it doesn't use any front vs back algorithms to actually monitor wheel speed. It's more of a "Hey, we were just doing 30, now we're doing 0 a second later, so I'm gonna pump the brakes 5 times and call it good" algorithm.
Would I upgrade to ABS if I had the option? You bet.
Can I drive without it? Not a problem.

[totalmotorcycle]

...discuss the merits or downsides of electronic aids for motorcyclists. Are they beneficial or a hazard? Would you pay the extra to have them when buying a new bike? Can you do better than a computer? Are they evil and dangerous? Discuss.

I'm quite on the fence with this one. For the industry, I'm happy to see advancements being made from all the manufacturers. Today's motorcycles are more agile, quicker, lighter and more packed with technology than ever before.

For me, I'm concerned that technology can be a hinderance to the pure joy of just riding down a road. I've owned bikes from a 1978 Suzuki to a 2007 Suzuki. The 1978 had points and condensers, bias ply tires and very little electronics (not even a neutral light). Riding it was the same joy as riding the 2007 with radial tires, FI, CPU electronics, but I did find working on the 2007 was more complex and less fun than on the 1978.

I like simplicity rather than complexity. I guess that is understandable then based on the fact "I have never owned a cell phone, pager or iPod/iPad" and am quite proud of that as they don't interfere in my life and I see the "anti-freedom" they can bring to others. So I wouldn't buy a bike with ABS, traction control or other electronic aids... I don't miss them and I don't really need them to make things more complex than they need to be.

I do like Fuel Injection, I do like radial tires and dependable electronics. Maybe because they are so new on bikes that they are dependable and I've never had to work on 20+ year old fuel injectors or thin "Weight saving" gauge wiring.

For cars, I hate traction control. I rented a Dodge Challenger for 12 days and absolutely loved the car, but I couldn't turn the traction control fully off so it got in the way of what I wanted the car to do. (yes, a few burnouts) And if I owned a Challenger you bet I'd find some way around that traction control to turn it off. I am sure the AUDI A3 we currently drive here in the UK has ABS, but do I notice it? No, it's no different than a non-ABS car to me as a driver.

Technology is great, it should be used to enhance our lives, the things we love to do and give us more freedom. Over the past 20 years I've seen technology used wrongly (IMO), technology seems to enslave us by not being able to walk away from it, by replacing jobs with it and fear of owning something outdated thus having to work more to buy it.

I applaud the manufacturers for giving technology options to us on our motorcycles as long as they remain, options and not something we don't want but don't have a choice not to have.

[Johnj]

Is ABS evil? No.

Are they evil and dangerous? No.

Employment opportunity abound at SKYNET in the Public Relations Department.

[Brackstone]

I'm a huge geek, technophile, lover of all things technology and if one day I can put my brain in a case and put it in a cyborg body I will be the first person to sign up.

HOWEVER

I do not want ride-by-wire and I do NOT want ABS on my motorcycle. I bought a motorcycle without an automatic transmission and I bought a car that was a stick because I like having a relationship with my machines. I believe the more technology you put between yourself and your engine you are losing something.

[Wrider]

I'm thinking you guys are not quite understanding the ABS technology. When ABS fails it returns to having NORMAL brakes on a vehicle. Almost every one of you has power/vacuum assisted brakes on your car, yet how many of you have experienced failure of those? What happens when those fail? Your brakes become extremely hard to push. Any of you old enough to have driven a vehicle made before the 80s will remember "Armstrong" steering and brakes. It just reverts to those.

Fly by wire is another story and yes it is apt to fail. I'm not a fan of it myself because of the possibilities of it failing, especially as the machine becomes older.

ABS is not computers telling you what you can and can't do (although sometimes it kicks in a bit early), it's computers telling your bike/car "Hey, you're in a skid, and your operator wants to slow down in a hurry, pump the brakes for them."

[Brackstone]

I'm thinking you guys are not quite understanding the ABS technology. When ABS fails it returns to having NORMAL brakes on a vehicle. Almost every one of you has power/vacuum assisted brakes on your car, yet how many of you have experienced failure of those? What happens when those fail? Your brakes become extremely hard to push. Any of you old enough to have driven a vehicle made before the 80s will remember "Armstrong" steering and brakes. It just reverts to those.

Fly by wire is another story and yes it is apt to fail. I'm not a fan of it myself because of the possibilities of it failing, especially as the machine becomes older.

ABS is not computers telling you what you can and can't do (although sometimes it kicks in a bit early), it's computers telling your bike/car "Hey, you're in a skid, and your operator wants to slow down in a hurry, pump the brakes for them."

I do know what ABS does and I still don't want it. I'm not saying it's not a good piece of technology however I personally am not interested. I've locked my wheel before and I handled it.

[Markg1]

The first bike I owned that had ABS is my '10 vmax. As a matter of fact it has a "fly by wire" throttle. So for the most part, my vmax has lots of technology IMO. I Honestly enjoy that crisp throttle and the outstanding cornering for such a large bike. With that said , I don't even notice the ABS. I mean I know I have it, but when I'm riding my vmax vs my vrod I brake just the same. I notice more of that crisp throttle response or the suspension on my vmax than the ABS. Anybody out there that has ABS on their bike, do you notice your ABS? The only time I notice my ABS was today. I was coming down my dirt drive way nice and slow and I slammed on my rear brake just to see if it would lock. So my question is if a rider doesn't notice ABS, improves braking , lowers your chance of being in a fatal accident, doesn't it make sense to put them on bikes? I'm not saying that the government mandate this. Just thinking safety here. I mean we all enjoy riding, that's obvious. But shouldn't we give ourselves every opportunity to keep ourselves as safe as possible? I have never been in a situation where I've needed them and I hope I never am. Ride safe my friends!

Mark