I hate other motorcycle riders

[Superfly3176]

Scooters aren't motorcycles, there's a distinctive difference in how they operate, how you sit on them etc. They're only motorcycles in the sense that they have 2 wheels. VRODs aren't real harley davidsons, because well, harley davidsons make 45 degree aircooled vtwins. The Vrod doesn't fit in that category.

Cars and trucks aren't that close either. They're both motor vehicles, and sure they share quite a bit in common. But nobody is mistaking a car for a truck. A truck normally sits higher, has a bed, is and is built for a number of things, hauling/towing, offroading etc. I don't see many cars hauling a load of stone, or pulling a fullsize camper, or offroading. But I see trucks doing it all the time.

It's funny you'd mention a sportster not being a real harley davidson. Last time I checked it had a 45 degree aircooled vtwin. Not to mention it's harley davidson's longest running line of motorcycles dating back to 1957. This is longer running than the current softail (1984), Dyna (1991), Touring (1980).

If you want to get technical you're entering my realm now. Technically a scooter IS a motorcycle. A motorcycle is a vehicle with two (or three depending on the state/country) wheels that is driven forward by a motor or engine of some sort. Blurring the line would be a moped with pedals. So scooters ARE motorcycles.

The VRod is a Harley Davidson. It is not a TRADITIONAL Harley Davidson, but it is one nonetheless. As for those that argue it's a Porsche engine in there, noooo. Porsche helped design the motor, but Kawasaki and Yamaha have helped with the Evo and the Twin Cam engines respectively. Does that make them non-Harleys as well? Don't think so.

I see plenty of trucks (including mine) that see use as a daily driver, commuter, people carrier, and just happen to have the extra capability of carrying/towing a load. Depending on whether you get a 4x4 or not, some of the 2 wheel drive trucks sit lower than some cars I've seen stock for stock.

He's not saying Sporties aren't real HDs, he's saying a lot of HD fans say they're not real HDs, mainly because they don't come in the 96 CI displacement like the Twin Cam does.

Grats You've made minor distictions out of my opinion. Technically a scooter is a motorcycle grats, everyone knows this. But technically there's a difference between a scooter and a motorcycle. It's how you sit as I've stated before. It's plain to realize this difference, oh hmm gee. Maybe there's a reason most people don't accept scooters as motorcycles. Because they aren't really the same.

I've already touched on my opinion on the VROD thing more than enough times. It doesn't sound like a harley davidson. Nice enough bike on it's own right? Yeah I guess. But why not just buy a Vmax or a Rocket III if you're looking for a high-horsepower drag cruiser. They're both much better performers. A logo just doesn't make it a harley davidson in my eyes. Again, if it doesn't sound like a harley, or look like a harley the name on the side doesn't make a difference to me. The VROD is the red headed step child of harley davidson.

A truck can be used to commute and haul people around? No chit. I never said it couldn't. It's one of the things it shares in common with a car. Do some trucks sit lower than cars? Yep, but that's a niche market, just like the scooter. Most trucks sit higher, quite a few have 4wd. Many of them are also built to tow/haul or built up to climb rocks, sand dunes, etc.

Trucks just so happen to have towing/payload options? Are you serious? That's the general purpose of 95% of trucks. You wouldn't buy a truck if you didn't need to haul some furniture, plants, rocks, or a trailer once in awhile. Why would you unless you have a ton of money to blow? It's certainly not economical. There's plenty of landscapers, roofers, etc who use their trucks everyday to haul payload after payload. I don't see them using cars for the same thing. Why's that you ask? Cars don't have beds or heavy duty suspensions to handle it.

Because a sportster isn't 96CI? Wow what a distinction.
Flathead Engines = 45 CI (742cc)
Knucklehead Engines = 60CI (990cc) & 74CI (1200cc)
Shovelhead Engines = 74CI (1200cc)
Evolution Engines = 54CI (883cc), 74CI (1200cc), 81.8CI (1340cc)
Twin Cam 88 Engines = 88CI (1450cc)
Twin Cam 96 Engines = 96CI (1584cc)

So I guess the Flathead, Knucklehead, Shovelhead, 1340cc Evo, and Twin Cam 88 weren't Harley's in "some peoples eyes" either because none of them were 96CI. It's not the size, it's the engine's design. Oh and all touring models are moving to 103CI from factory this year so now they're the only real harley davidsons in the lineup right?

[storysunfolding]

Grats You've made minor distictions out of my opinion. Technically a scooter is a motorcycle grats, everyone knows this. But technically there's a difference between a scooter and a motorcycle. It's how you sit as I've stated before. It's plain to realize this difference, oh hmm gee. Maybe there's a reason most people don't accept scooters as motorcycles. Because they aren't really the same.

Well that fails the logic test. The sitting position is different on a cruiser vs a standard vs a sportbike. None of these are the same. When you start adding in offroad the variations get bigger. Are trials motorcycles not motorcycles since modern trials bikes don't even have a seating position?

Motorcycles have diverged greatly over the years. Scooters, like every other subsection are different than the rest in some particulars. However, they ultimately handle the same. A scooter, just like a motorcycle is a two wheeled, single tracked vehicle, with the same handling characteristics and idiosyncrasies. If it does not fit your world view I'm sorry, but it can't change the fact.

On another subject, if the V-rod isn't a Harley, then what is it? Why does it have the name? Why are the owners allowed in the Harley's owner group? Why does Harley have them on the website? Why do the dealers sell them as a Harley Davidson? You have to ask yourself at some point how this Vrod as a harley conspiracy received worldwide dealer, media and enthusiast buyin.

[Wrider]

Well that fails the logic test. The sitting position is different on a cruiser vs a standard vs a sportbike. None of these are the same. When you start adding in offroad the variations get bigger. Are trials motorcycles not motorcycles since modern trials bikes don't even have a seating position?

Motorcycles have diverged greatly over the years. Scooters, like every other subsection are different than the rest in some particulars. However, they ultimately handle the same. A scooter, just like a motorcycle is a two wheeled, single tracked vehicle, with the same handling characteristics and idiosyncrasies. If it does not fit your world view I'm sorry, but it can't change the fact.

On another subject, if the V-rod isn't a Harley, then what is it? Why does it have the name? Why are the owners allowed in the Harley's owner group? Why does Harley have them on the website? Why do the dealers sell them as a Harley Davidson? You have to ask yourself at some point how this Vrod as a harley conspiracy received worldwide dealer, media and enthusiast buyin.

As he proved in response to my post, he's a very opinionated individual that logic just can't seem to get through to, just leave him be.

[HYPERR]

I've already touched on my opinion on the VROD thing more than enough times. It doesn't sound like a harley davidson.

It doesn't sound like a Harley Davidson 45 degree air cooled twin but it certainly sounds like a Harley Davidson 60 degree liquid cooled twin. In fact it sounds awesome, much more so than the 45 degree air cooled V-Twin to my ears. My friend had a VRod and with the high performance pipes it sounded like a bad a$$ NASCAR race car.

Nice enough bike on it's own right? Yeah I guess. But why not just buy a Vmax or a Rocket III if you're looking for a high-horsepower drag cruiser. They're both much better performers.

What makes the VMax or the Rocket III "much better performers" than the VRod?

A logo just doesn't make it a harley davidson in my eyes. Again, if it doesn't sound like a harley, or look like a harley the name on the side doesn't make a difference to me.

Well I guess a guy who has been riding a bike for two years knows more about what a Harley is than someone like Willie G Davidson who has poured his blood, sweat, and tears into saving the company from AMF and making it what it is today.

The VROD is the red headed step child of harley davidson.

Whether you like it or not, there is going to come a day when a big air cooled twin is not going to be able to meet federal emission standards. The "red headed step child" is the not so distant future of Harley Davidson.

So I guess the Flathead, Knucklehead, Shovelhead, 1340cc Evo, and Twin Cam 88 weren't Harley's in "some peoples eyes" either because none of them were 96CI. It's not the size, it's the engine's design. Oh and all touring models are moving to 103CI from factory this year so now they're the only real harley davidsons in the lineup right?

Well I don't know about the Flat, Knuckle, and the Shovel but there were certainly many that didn't consider the Evo a real Harley when they came out. In fact many of the "die-hards" were so disgusted with the Motor Company catering to the Yuppy crowd, many of them put the Harley Davidson emblem on their bikes upside-down. Yup the same insecurities as the people who claim Sportsters aren't real Harleys and the same insecurities as the people who claim V-Rods aren't real Harleys.

[Superfly3176]

It's funny. You guys act like my opinions are so far fetched in the motorcycle world. They obviously aren't thus the ops original post. Hell I sit at work everyday with a guy who rides a Big Twin tourer who shares the same exact opinion as I do. That Vrods aren't real harleys, and that scooters aren't real motorcycles.

I'm sure if you polled quite a few people would have the same opinion. But heck let's make the OP feel warm and fuzzy inside because scooters are motorcycles.

[JVRR]

This thread is ridiculous. First off, anyone who uses an el Camino as evidence that cars and trucks are similar is smoking something funny. They obviously are a weekend warrior that has never put anything more than a few bags of garbage in their truck.

The simple fact is yes, a lot of trucks are daily drivers and have a lot of other similarities with a car. That hardly makes them the same. You'll never, naturally, look at a truck and call it a car, or look at a car and call it a truck. There is a reason for that. And the same goes for motorcycles and scooters. If a government definition is your support, we are done even debating.

I don't care if the lines are blurred, if there are less and less differences every day (heck look at a Tacoma compared to a Civic, not much difference )... they are still different.

[Wrider]

This thread is ridiculous. First off, anyone who uses an el Camino as evidence that cars and trucks are similar is smoking something funny. They obviously are a weekend warrior that has never put anything more than a few bags of garbage in their truck.

Umm considering I learned to drive on a 5 sp manual 12V Cummins 3500 dually, and I've loaded, driven, backed, unloaded, etc hundreds of loads on that and similar trucks, I think I know what a truck is intended for.

[JVRR]

This thread is ridiculous. First off, anyone who uses an el Camino as evidence that cars and trucks are similar is smoking something funny. They obviously are a weekend warrior that has never put anything more than a few bags of garbage in their truck.

Umm considering I learned to drive on a 5 sp manual 12V Cummins 3500 dually, and I've loaded, driven, backed, unloaded, etc hundreds of loads on that and similar trucks, I think I know what a truck is intended for.

I never said you do not, unless you want to back up that other guy's statement that an El Camino is like a car that carries "a load like a truck." Then you do not know what you are talking about . Not everything with a bed is created equal. I've loaded several thousand tons worth of material into trucks, the two funniest are always guys in their little Mazda that think they can haul like an F750, and then they guys in the Tundras that are afraid of loading more than 500lbs in the back.

[Marvin]

I kinda figured I would be thrown out of this forum for what I said. I admit I was angry when I typed it cause I just experienced being picked on and harrassed cause I ride a scooter. I have no friends and I just needed someone to talk to, to vent my anger, I was seeking someone that experienced the same problems. I was just being honest. Its coming to the point that sometimes I have the feelings of being ashamed and embaressed when I get my scooter out for a ride, the way other bikers point and laugh at me gets me angry. Crotch rockets always have something to prove by wanting to race me but when I point to them to pull over so I can talk to them they refuse, I just want to ask them why do they want to race against a scooter for and I would admit to them my scooter isnot in the same league. I can tell if another rider is a beginner or experienced rider by just watching the way he rides, slows down for curves, takes curves too wide and so on, and this same rider that cannot ride his bike cuts me down just because I ride a scooter.
Its amazing to me that some group has a poker run where the money benifits a little girl with cancer, but these same people refuse to allow me to pay for and ride in their poker run just because I am riding a scooter, so I ask is the poker run for the little girl with cancer, or is it to show off your bikes with lots of chrome?

[ceemes]

I have no friends and I just needed someone to talk to, to vent my anger, I was seeking someone that experienced the same problems.

Okay, I am going to be brutally honest here. It's not your bike that it is the problem, its you and you arrogant, and narcistic attitude that is the problem. If you present yourself in real life the way you come across in these forums, then I am not surprised at all that you have no friends and no one wants to ride with you. I am pretty easy going and get along with most people, but if I came across you in real life, I'd think "what a p rick" and tell you to p iss off.

Instead of worrying about what people think about your bike, you should be worrying about what people think about you, and from what I can see, they aren't thinking anythng good. So my best advice to you, stop be such a t0sser and work on you personality.