Life's little lessons...

Message

kabob983 · #31 Unread post by **kabob983** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:06 am

storysunfolding wrote:However, people seem to think that just because they've taken the course that they can ride.

I'm trying to fight this mentality. I'm going in with the mindset that the MSF course will give me a good base to learn on and teach me some drills/skills that I will need to continually get better. It takes more than 2 days to really learn a skill, especially one as complicated as motorcycling.

#32 Unread post by **cb360** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:51 am

This topic is always incendiary for some reason. I certainly understand why some folks recommend small bikes to start with. Small bikes are easier to ride and control. They are lighter and generally much less expensive - easier to haul to a parking lot if you wish - all in all they are pretty practical to learn on. Duh. I don't understand why the other side of the equation gets so angry though. Who cares? If you learn on a smaller bike you can always get a bigger one. It's not like you have to keep your first bike forever. No one is harmed by starting small. For those who learned successfully on larger bikes... good for you. Ride safe and have a good time. That doesn't make the small bike advocates wrong. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

#33 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:17 am

I don't recall anyone stating that small bike advocates are wrong. I do, however, recall countless instances of people getting read the riot-act for recommending bikes with even moderate power output. Getting ahold of a nice, smaller used bike is an ideal scenario but, as you said, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Being a licensed, experienced biker with a larger than average bike, I can say from my own observations that even a versatile, modern day UJM like the Honda 599 or SV650 would be a great beginner platform, albeit for someone who possesses the patience necessary to learn slowly and not drop it as some here insist they must, almost as if it's a right of passage or something. Thing is, you're always gonna have the ocassional cocky boy-racer who absolutely must hit triple-digit speeds within a week of learning to ride, and you know what?....I say let 'em. If someone wants to punch the throttle as they're leaving the dealer lot with their temp plates on and manages to do a face-plant in the middle of the street, I say "Bravo!" Guys like that need to be taken down a peg or two once in a while, and a couple months worth of skin grafts and road rash itch should do nicely. Those that push their luck hard enough to get themselves killed are heroes in my book, increasing the median IQ of the local population and making the world a little less annoying for the rest of us. Those that survive the experience of learning on bikes two, three, or even four times the size of the MSF course bikes will go on to be good, responsible, skilled riders.

#34 Unread post by **cb360** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:01 am

ZooTech wrote:I don't recall anyone stating that small bike advocates are wrong. I do, however, recall countless instances of people getting read the riot-act for recommending bikes with even moderate power output. Getting ahold of a nice, smaller used bike is an ideal scenario but, as you said, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Being a licensed, experienced biker with a larger than average bike, I can say from my own observations that even a versatile, modern day UJM like the Honda 599 or SV650 would be a great beginner platform, albeit for someone who possesses the patience necessary to learn slowly and not drop it as some here insist they must, almost as if it's a right of passage or something. Thing is, you're always gonna have the ocassional cocky boy-racer who absolutely must hit triple-digit speeds within a week of learning to ride, and you know what?....I say let 'em. If someone wants to punch the throttle as they're leaving the dealer lot with their temp plates on and manages to do a face-plant in the middle of the street, I say "Bravo!" Guys like that need to be taken down a peg or two once in a while, and a couple months worth of skin grafts and road rash itch should do nicely. Those that push their luck hard enough to get themselves killed are heroes in my book, increasing the median IQ of the local population and making the world a little less annoying for the rest of us. Those that survive the experience of learning on bikes two, three, or even four times the size of the MSF course bikes will go on to be good, responsible, skilled riders.

I actually agree with a lot of what you say. I think bigger folks can do nicely learning on bikes larger than 250 ccs - especially when we are talking about cruisers. I'm not an 'all 250, all the time' guy. But in an anonymous web forum it's a pretty safe way to go. We relate our experiences here and it's up to the reader to make their own choices. For the record, I think big strong dudes - especially those who've had training - can do fine on a 750cc cruiser. But I also don't ignore the fact that there's millions of people commuting to work in dangerous urban environments all over the world on 125cc bikes. There's far more 125s ferrying people to work than liter bikes any day. By quite a far margin. Before you go nuts on me I don't think that's a great bike for everybody and i don't want to ride one on the interstate. By the same token I think we ignore small bikes because we live in america despite the fact that they could work great for city dwellers just about anywhere.

"If someone wants to punch the throttle as they're leaving the dealer lot with their temp plates on and manages to do a face-plant in the middle of the street"

See - I'm kinda hoping we can help people to avoid that.

Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:16 am

cb360 wrote: "If someone wants to punch the throttle as they're leaving the dealer lot with their temp plates on and manages to do a face-plant in the middle of the street"

See - I'm kinda hoping we can help people to avoid that.

LoL- Ok. Yeah, I'm with you on that one.

I agree a small bike can be a great commuter if you live in city. However, if you are not local I think the smallest you should have is a 250cc around DC. Traffic is fast (where it's moving), people are on cellphones and impatient so you need to be able to move, and have power at higher speeds to avoid being road kill. When I look at the lines of motorcycles around here there seems a clear split between teh few scooters/one honda rebel and the rest average around 600cc with the occasional liter bike. If I were just going around the streets and not commuting from 15 miles away, I'd definately like a smaller bike for the ease of parking, better mileage and other benefits, but I would never be able to drive it to leave DC anywhere near the rush times (morning, lunch, evening) and I'd hate to be restricted.

#36 Unread post by **cb360** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:51 am

Yep, little bikes aren't great for all the people all the time. I just don't think we should discount small bikes altogether as unpractical. They are serving millions of people admirably every day. Hell, I just got a bigger bike myself for riding two-up on the interstate and I love it and i don't doubt there's a liter bike in my future for touring. But I must admit I can get anywhere in the city of Seattle faster on my 360 than my car - and the parking is easier when I get there.

#37 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:07 am

If I lived, worked, and spent most of my time in the city (Columbus, Ohio in my case) I never would have traded-in my NightHawk 700SC or, if I did, it would have been for a modern 650-750cc standard. Thing is, I'm a good twenty minutes from Columbus and do a lot of freeway commuting in areas with little to no wind-break, and alongside cars that are all going 80mph+. Believe it or not, my NightHawk felt like it was having an asthma attack at 80mph, and I didn't care to drop from 6th to 4th just to milk the powerband for what little it still had left to offer me. I also didn't care for getting blown around by semis or riding down Route-33 leaning over 10-degrees into the crosswind the whole way.

Simply put, my bike is overkill in the city, and would likewise be overkill in most of the UK. I don't discount the usefulness and economy of smaller bikes, and would prefer one myself if, as I said, I was a city dweller. And while it would admittedly be preferable for most new riders to get ahold of a good 250-450cc bike to learn on, I think we're just a little too quick to scold and judge folks for going beyond this class of bike when learning. It's not as impractical as it's made out to be, and you have to take into account some people's natural ability. If someone were really unsure whether or not they could even ride a motorcycle, I think they'd gravitate towards the smallest, lightest bike they could find. Those that pop in here asking if the SV650 is a good starter bike probably have a decent understanding of what's involved and how well they're equipped to handle it, so I wouldn't dismiss them automatically or push them to read some cookie-cutter sticky.

#38 Unread post by **cb360** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:33 am

It's all good. the more people that buy bikes and learn to ride them responsibly, the better off we'll all be. More motorcycle parking, less motorcycle discrimination... and hopefully one day, cheaper prices on bikes and more models to choose from!!!

Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:38 am

cb360 wrote:It's all good. the more people that buy bikes and learn to ride them responsibly, the better off we'll all be. More motorcycle parking, less motorcycle discrimination... and hopefully one day, cheaper prices on bikes and more models to choose from!!!

I think that's something we all can agree on

kabob983 · Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:40 am

I suppose alot of it is situational, but I still believe that buying a race replica bike as a first bike is more of an ego thing than a "necessity" thing, unless of course you ride the autobahn to work every day...

There are times when having more power is nice, or even necessary, but that's more power than you "require" for a busy highway, long transit, etc.