Occupy Wall Street and other protesters delights

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High_Side
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Occupy Wall Street and other protesters delights

#1 Unread post by High_Side »

I understand the protest on Wall Street for the most part however I am struggling with the copy cat protests that are hitting the streets in other parts of N.A.(particularly Canada) Beyond that, there is the entire European "entitlement"" marches in countries which are essentially bankrupt, but whose citizens feel that they are entitled to programs that they cannot afford. If you look to most key news sources there never seems to be a consensus on what the protest issue is, and in N.A. at least it is for everything from the homeless protesting poor conditions, to protests of banks and big companies, etc.... So someone please enlighten me, because as of right now from under my rock I can only see the negative..... (the entitled, the hobby protesters who will protest EVERYTHING, as well as the hobby dodo-disturbers). Don't get me wrong, I support the right to protest but fershristsakes understand what you are protesting before you show up. And when you pick up that first rock and toss it through a shop window remember that any message or support that you may have generated from your popular gathering has gone out the broken window.

So please enlighten me: worthy cause or a reason to get together, smoke a little weed and smash a few windows?

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Re: Occupy Wall Street and other protesters delights

#2 Unread post by totalmotorcycle »

There was 13,700 people today joining in the protest in London, UK. Made every news channel all day long. But it was peace full and I have to say, the person they interviewed was quite educated and intelligent about why they were there.

The unemployment rate here in the UK for under 25 year olds is over 26% and many of them feel they won't have the opportunities afforded in previous generations plus have to pay back all the debt of those generations as well as suffer higher taxes and lowered benefits.

Kinda reminds me of my generation (Gen X) in the late 80's, but I was just worred about high unemployment (in Toronto) and not huge debt on top of that as well.

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Re: Occupy Wall Street and other protesters delights

#3 Unread post by ceemes »

What really sickens me to no end is not the protesters, but rather the baby boomers who put us into these situation in the first place. Now depending on who you ask, I am either one of the last baby boomers born or one of the first Gen-X'ers but either way it is our generation that allowed our current economic situation to occur.

Sad thing is, many of those greedy self-serving baby boomers were the same people who when they were younger were dead set on changing the world for the better, the so-called hippies and yippies. They were the Civil Rights works and the Vietnam War Protesters who in the 60's and early 70's want to make if not the world more socially just, then at least their part of it. But somewhere during the 80's, the Reagan Era, these young idealist turned their backs on their ideals and embraced greed and corruption wholeheartedly. They are the ones that lead us to where we are now, in a never ending race to the bottom and a modern day feudalism.

Of course our throw away society doesn't help what with in rampant consumerism of all manner of crap, and built in obsolescence. Use to be a time when you bought an item, you expected to keep it and for it to work for years if not decades. Today, buy something and it is already obsolete and needing replacing by the time you walk out the vendors door. Take mobile phones for instance. Seems like every six months new must have models are being introduced and snapped up by the gullible, thus feeding the machine. And then these is the issue of EZ FREE credit, with in all honesty is neither easy nor free. By getting us hooked on the credit machine, the banks and other institutions are basically enslaving us, as we are indebted to them for life.

Yeah, many of these protesters seem to be a bit lost as to what they are protesting, but at least they are making a stand, something we all should be doing if we want to take back control of our lives and our nations. Stay the current course and we risk having to lead an endless life of financial serfdom.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street and other protesters delights

#4 Unread post by High_Side »

totalmotorcycle wrote:There was 13,700 people today joining in the protest in London, UK. Made every news channel all day long. But it was peace full and I have to say, the person they interviewed was quite educated and intelligent about why they were there.

The unemployment rate here in the UK for under 25 year olds is over 26% and many of them feel they won't have the opportunities afforded in previous generations plus have to pay back all the debt of those generations as well as suffer higher taxes and lowered benefits.

Kinda reminds me of my generation (Gen X) in the late 80's, but I just worred about high unemployment (in Toronto) and not huge debt on top of that as well.

Mike
That's an upgrade from the protests where they were trying to "burn London" from a couple of months ago. A good thing. But as a protester this time around protesting high unemployment and high debt what was the proposal? Stopping the government from financing the future would be a good start. Next thing you are going to tell me that they we offering up solutions too! Way to step in the way of a good rant :lol:


The ones in Calgary - not so much. The moron that they interviewed on the news was not really even sure why they were there, but he was sure condemning of the city for not supplying enough facilities to provide him comfort while he was there (they installed porta-potties and a fire pit for the protesters - he was looking for much more). It really was enough to make me want to punch the radio.....

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Re: Occupy Wall Street and other protesters delights

#5 Unread post by High_Side »

ceemes wrote:What really sickens me to no end is not the protesters, but rather the baby boomers who put us into these situation in the first place. Now depending on who you ask, I am either one of the last baby boomers born or one of the first Gen-X'ers but either way it is our generation that allowed our current economic situation to occur.

Sad thing is, many of those greedy self-serving baby boomers were the same people who when they were younger were dead set on changing the world for the better, the so-called hippies and yippies. They were the Civil Rights works and the Vietnam War Protesters who in the 60's and early 70's want to make if not the world more socially just, then at least their part of it. But somewhere during the 80's, the Reagan Era, these young idealist turned their backs on their ideals and embraced greed and corruption wholeheartedly. They are the ones that lead us to where we are now, in a never ending race to the bottom and a modern day feudalism.

Of course our throw away society doesn't help what with in rampant consumerism of all manner of "crumb", and built in obsolescence. Use to be a time when you bought an item, you expected to keep it and for it to work for years if not decades. Today, buy something and it is already obsolete and needing replacing by the time you walk out the vendors door. Take mobile phones for instance. Seems like every six months new must have models are being introduced and snapped up by the gullible, thus feeding the machine. And then these is the issue of EZ FREE credit, with in all honesty is neither easy nor free. By getting us hooked on the credit machine, the banks and other institutions are basically enslaving us, as we are indebted to them for life.

Yeah, many of these protesters seem to be a bit lost as to what they are protesting, but at least they are making a stand, something we all should be doing if we want to take back control of our lives and our nations. Stay the current course and we risk having to lead an endless life of financial serfdom.
Great reply Cemees. I agree that the big issue here is easy credit and greed. What kills me though is that when the "poo poo" hits the fan though it's the banks fault. Clearly. The guy who needed the $60K diesel pickup with $4K with worth of wheels and tires and financed it to the hilt was just a victim of the system. How was he to know that hanging himself out there could go so wrong? The couple in their early 20s who needed 2500 sq. feet of house with granite counter-tops were just trying to scrape by when the bank came and took their house..... How could they know that life could be so unfair?

What it comes down to is this: Everyone is currently looking for someone to blame and the institutions are an easy target. Really though we are surrounded by people everyday who ARE the problem themselves but just can't see it. And it cannot get any better until all the players recalibrate their expectations and entitlements.

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Re: Occupy Wall Street and other protesters delights

#6 Unread post by ceemes »

High_Side wrote:Great reply Cemees. I agree that the big issue here is easy credit and greed. What kills me though is that when the "poo poo" hits the fan though it's the banks fault. Clearly. The guy who needed the $60K diesel pickup with $4K with worth of wheels and tires and financed it to the hilt was just a victim of the system. How was he to know that hanging himself out there could go so wrong? The couple in their early 20s who needed 2500 sq. feet of house with granite counter-tops were just trying to scrape by when the bank came and took their house..... How could they know that life could be so unfair?

What it comes down to is this: Everyone is currently looking for someone to blame and the institutions are an easy target. Really though we are surrounded by people everyday who ARE the problem themselves but just can't see it. And it cannot get any better until all the players recalibrate their expectations and entitlements.
I will grant that the majority of people who find themselves in fiscal trouble often bring it on themselves. I mean how many of us here have gone out and bought that shiny new motorbike on credit and then found out they really cannot afford it?

However, I think that what a lot of people are protesting is not that life is inherently unfair, but rather that the current system is leveled against them, that no matter what they do, they are going to be screwed over by some nameless suit with a ledger book for a soul.

Many of those that are deriding the protesters on the CBC boards really don't understand that many of those out there protesting are victims of the system, that at one time in the not too distant past, they were out there working contributing until they were made redundant in the name of profit. In many ways, those protesters are out there for the likes of you and me, the stupid buggers who drag their sorry butts out of bed at half past stupid, and then put in a hard days grind for pennies. (My favorite workplace rhyme: I work for pennies, the boss gets the dimes, that is why I take my daily shiit on company time) We are the ones who are getting screwed over, not the fat cats or the financiers.

Then there is the major issue of Corporate Welfare, and trust me it exists big time. Major Corporations and Banks own the vast majority of our political leaders and parties, especially the like of Crusty Clarke in BC and Harpo in Ottawa. When things go sideways for the Corps and Banks, they call on their lackies in our various Houses of Parliament, who are quick to cut them a big fat cheque of our money. However, god forbid in the Politico's ever think about asking them to share their profits with us or pay their fair share. Nope, the order of the day is privatized profits, but socialized losses. You and I are expected to cover their losses, and to guarantee the CEO's bonuses.

The sad fact of the matter is we live in a disposable society, the most disposable commodity in the marketplace is you and me. And if a Corporation or Bank can increase their profit margin by even 1% by axing our jobs and farming them overseas, they will do so without breaking a sweat or thinking twice about it. At the same time, they are assaulting our hard won benefits and wages. I have used the term "race to the bottom" many times, and it is apt. Companies no longer care about you or me or any of their employees. We are nothing more then a means to generate profit for them, and if they can make more profit by getting rid of us and replacing us with someone who is will to accept less, then they will do so. And then laugh at us sitting on the sidewalk shivering in the cold as they drive by in their big fancy SUV's and limo's. Think about how much the cost of living has gone up and now compare that to last wage increase, bet ya dollars to doughnuts that you have less purchasing power now then you did ten years ago, even if your wages have increased. And for many, wages have been stagnant or even declining on a steady basis for years, but their costs have steadily increased.

In many ways, many of us are our own worse enemies. We have empowered those who would subjugate and enslave us buy blindly accepting what they tell us is the gospel truth and granting them control over us. We have and still are surrendering the hard fought gains our parents, and our grandparent and even our great-grandparents fought and died for, not only in foreign wars, but also on the front line battles on the labour front. And we blindly accept them when they tell us "Be happy you have a job." which is basically a threat. Long story short, they tell us to drop trousers and bend over and we do and to make matters worse, we no longer demand a preliminary kiss first before we get screwed up the arse sans lube.

Yeah, more then a few of those Occupy Whatever protesters are ideologically naive, and quite possibly misguided, but at least they are making a stand and saying enough is enough. I wonder how many here also feel that they too are being royally screwed over by the man but just don't have the 'nads to speak out or doing anything about it?
Last edited by ceemes on Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street and other protesters delights

#7 Unread post by blues2cruise »

There were no broken windows in Vancouver. It was a peaceful protest....or so I read.....

I was at a photography seminar all day.
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Re: Occupy Wall Street and other protesters delights

#8 Unread post by mogster »

Ceemes- too many good & erudite points in your last post to quote.

I totally agree with the sentiment that even if naïve, protest (when peaceful) is valid & to be celebrated in those parts of the world that we can feel safe to do so.

I also get exasperated by those who bemoan poor working conditions/pay etc but will in the next breath slag off unions.

And don't get me started on the whingers who complain about poor government but never make the effort to vote (or scratch their vote as a protest).

In my own little part of history I had a Grandfather who was a concientious objector in WW1 but still volunteered as a stretcher bearer at Gallipoli; a Father who was a self educated Trade Union Shop Steward; 2 brothers who between them served nearly 60yrs in the British Army & perhaps (modestly) myself with 30yrs as a public service nurse.

I have marched when motivated in "No Nuclear" protests; given money to striking firefighters; attended a rally against British involvement in Afghanistan; signed numerous petitions & voted at every national election & most local (without ever having my preference elected), since 1979. Most importantly I have raised 2 feisty, motivated, working daughters

So my reasons for this potted history? Simple I am priviliged to live in a free democracy which has been fought & sweated for. Whilst I abhor mindless violence & vandalism I do rejoice that maybe, just maybe people are waking up to the risk of losing many freedoms that we have taken for granted.

So to answer the original point- " what are they protesting about"? Does it matter, as long as "they" are?

BTW I was too busy working to march today!:D
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#9 Unread post by High_Side »

It's quite a different perspective that some people choose to take when "protesting" being screwed over by their employer. Honestly if I felt that I was being forced to drop trou and bend over by my employer I would protest in a very different way - with my feet. It's simple. When I thought that I was getting screwed by my employer and I was worth more I found a place that shared that same perspective. If I could not find a place that felt the same I would make my own place of employment. I would rise to CEO in one day, hire my own staff and pay them a fair salary and prove that I'm worth what I think I am worth. It's not going to be a popular perspective I'm sure, but as a kid coming from a bankrupt farm at 18 y.o. with no education it has worked out well for me. And I have a hell of a lot more buying power than I did 10 years ago because of it.

When I read about the "fat cats who send jobs overseas", I wonder if the posters of these comments ever try to really understand why this happens. Is it because we all like to buy stuff for the lowest price? Is it because of a work force that operates like this:

"I work for pennies, the boss gets the dimes, that is why I take my daily shiit on company time" We are the ones who are getting screwed over, not the fat cats or the financiers. "

So what about the "financiers"? Setting aside the ones that received the bail-outs (which are a BIG problem), being a company or institution that invests in making a profit seems to suddenly be a negative thing. But what if it was your own money that was on the line, would you aim to take all of your hard earned cash $ and risk it on something that didn't turn a profit? It's kind of the basis for our whole damned system, and it's the thing has given us a much higher standard of living than those who believe that Karl Marx had the right idea. If they decide that profits come at the expense of their people their people need to show their displeasure and walk. The same goes for the companies themselves: if the business environment comes at the expense of them making a profit they can do the same. It works a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

So back to the protesters. I support having the right to do it and it's another great thing about the country that I live in. I feel that without a focused message and a common understanding of what the heck you are protesting you are wasting your time.....but the great thing is that it's yours to waste! I'll be out trying to earn a living.....

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Re: Occupy Wall Street and other protesters delights

#10 Unread post by sunshine229 »

High_Side wrote:What it comes down to is this: Everyone is currently looking for someone to blame and the institutions are an easy target. Really though we are surrounded by people everyday who ARE the problem themselves but just can't see it. And it cannot get any better until all the players recalibrate their expectations and entitlements.
+1!!!

Everyone is responsible for their own success or lack there of... Make your own choices and live with them. Spend knowing what the full cost is. Save for a rainy day. And ask yourself, "Do I really NEED to buy this item???"

I know there are things out of your control but if you keep control of what you can and make level headed decisions in your life you will be far better off then just throwing your life to the wind or even worse turning into a bump on a log.
Andrea :sun:

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