Italy or Japan?

[Sev]

How does a student own 3 cars and a ninja? Remember, models that you built yourself using the assembly kit do not count.

And, I gotta ask, but which magazine did you pull all of your facts off of?

I've been on the boards long enough to respect and pretty much agree with anything High Side has to say. Because he knows what he's talking about. He has never once steered me, or any of the other members wrong. And he doesn't fall back on insults when he doesn't have facts.

And only computer nerds say pwn. How do I know? I'm a computer nerd.

[jmillheiser]

I think you need to check your facts before you go spouting off that MV has no racing heritage. They have decades of racing experience going back to the 1950s.

How do you justify people buying a ducati or MV instead of a suzuki? Easy exclusivity, you have something interesting and rare versus being one of the multitudes riding ninjas and gixxers.

You want to talk value. Odds are a ducati or MV will APPRECIATE in value (as in they will become more valuable as time goes on). In 50 years the Ducati and MV superbikes of today could be priceless museum pieces and the millions of ninjas, gixxers, YZFs, and CBRs of today will likley have been melted down for scrap meteal.

You want a good inexpensive bike to ride around on, get a japanese bike.

You want something truly special and exotic that can even be considered an investment then look at the more exclusive bikes.

[TechTMW]

I bought the 250 because it had a WARRANTY.

Now that's faith in the product

No offense intended, but I think you need to live a little more. Go out and treat yourself to an expensive pair of handmade shoes. Or a pint of fine microbrewed beer. Or a hand-tailored shirt. It doesn't matter where they come from. You can taste and/or feel the difference.

I'm not a rich guy. I own 3 bikes right now, and they cost me $500 ('82 Yamaha), $500 ('91 Suzuki) and $1000 ('91 BMW). Most of my clothes come from department stores, and I usually drink mass-produced beer. But occasionally, I splurge on things.

To live life based solely on "bang-for-the-buck" Is a pretty sorry way to be. If you only buy products planned out by comittee which were designed to maximize sales and profits, then you've never really made a purchase that was intended for your maximum enjoyment. And you'll never understand that, unless you go out of control once in a while and appreciate things outside of your sphere.

"Street Cred" and "Value" ... There's more to life than that, dude.

[2006schoolbusyellow250R]

The MV does not race, so it has no street cred.....

Thats REALLY what it's all about isn't it?

When I was talking about the new MVs lack of racing heritage, I was refering to THAT BIKE (F4) NOT WINNING A SINGLE DAMNED RACE, OR RACING AT ALL.

How is that less of a racing heritage than the new ZX10 designed by a different committee than the last ZX10. Tamburini is an artist building modern classics....you might not be able to understand that...having gained all of your riding knowledge from reading magazines and what yer daddy toldja.....

If Honda brings us the V5, I am certain it will cost half what an MV F4 Tamburini does. Oh, and another thing, it will have a warranty over 10 mins/500 miles. .

Just like that $80K NR750 of '92 that Honda couldn't quite bring itself to import to the USA maybe????? The MVs are available now, and have a 12 month warrantee in the USA by the way......but it's not like you to get the facts mixed up is it????

I have owned/driven cars from the "big three" countries (First car was a Fiat 2000 Spider 1979), Italian, German, Japanese...and I know when the bar has been raised. .

Boy that really set the bar high!....REALLY, I didn't think you could out-do your last performance but then you do!

The Italians do not have the performance edge now, Yamaha is on top, so where is the mighty Ducati now?
You say Ducati has won more {you neglected to quote me on the "world superbike" part....but it's not like you to miss out on the facts is it?*insert by HighSide* }titles with it's series of bikes than anyone else, eh? Hogwash. You go Google my son...Tally up all the GP wins, the Bol d'or 24 hour endurance race victories, Isle of Man TT wins, WSB championchips, constructor championships, etc...We all know who is the overwhelming winner: HONDA.

You would think that they are the biggest company competing in the most racing series with the most riders and factory sponsered bikes with results like that! Oh, wait a minute......

Oh yeah, your great Ducati is getting it's "O Ring" handed to it by Yamaha and Rossi, so swallow that, my child.

As did Yamaha when Rossi was on the Honda, as did BOTH of them when he was on the Aprillia[Italian for nice bikes]....Do you see a pattern here?

Just accept that you are Euro-centric like the rest of the fools who think the F4 is the best-looking bike ever...when the R1 is light years ahead of it, looks better...and, what a revolution this last thing is... And it starts.

And how would you know this?????

Oh yeah, one last item to deal with: I was born 11/07/1981...for those of you lacking in basic math skills, that means I am 24, and I have been riding since I was 18.

Whoa! Impressive I'm tired of having the battle of whits with an unarmed boy, so I'll skip the years of experience chest beating. I have to say however that I have just about owned more Hondas than you've had birthdays. I'm a big fan. They do lots for the sport and have even single handedly kept a few racing series alive through the tuff times. I will always call B.S. however, when I read posts from someone who so obviously distorts or doesn't know the facts and comes kicking at others from within a could of ignorance. You may have already guessed but my MAIN ride is a Honda by the way, and it is a great bike. My point is that it IS great to take off the blinders once in a while and experience other things without pre-concieved notions of what is and isn't cr@p. It might even come in handy next time you want to log on to the internet, thump your chest and proclaim your overwhelming knowledge.....to others who get a kick out of it.

Always happy to help.

However, just because you claim to know more than someone sles, does not make it so.

And YES, racing heritage, and racing victories is what it is "ALL ABOUT". That is where CREDIBILITY comes from, not some high price tag...And Ducati did win with its 888/916/998 et al, and now Yamaha is taking the victories with a great bike/rider, so get over it. Rossi left, and went with $omeone else. That is racing.

Honda would not win if it did not produce machines at least on-par with the competition. If Honda fielded 12 bikes in a grid of 20, and all of them retired with the same mechanical problem, then Honda would not win. The reason Honda wins is PERSISTENCE, and BETTER DESIGNS than the other guy. In my opinion, Suzuki is the only marque to have come so close to "being Honda" in this way. But they all make great biks...just some happen to make WAY more that the others, and it shows if you "take off YOUR blinders."

Quit using terms like "artist", "sculptor", etc. to excuse an overpriced and inferior bike. The Italian fanboys have been doing this for years with their cars/bikes.

Oh, but the Italian bikes have a soul!!!, you cry from the mountaintops... Do they now? Does that mean that the Japanese who created their own bikes (CBR, ZX, GSXR, YZF) lack a soul due to their being Japanese? So Japanese performance bikes have no soul? Can we measure this? No, we can't. All that matters is what is tangible. VICTORIES on the TRACK, a reasonable price tag, reliability, etc. Not some concept of a soul, used to excuse bikes with higher maintenance than a supermodel's ego.

Think about that.

It sickens me when I talk to people/read magazines about the MV especially, and they rave on and on about how awesome it is, when it's performance is inferior to even the slowest new Japanese 1000.

If you are tired of having a "battle" of wits with someone else who has a different opinion than you, you might stop arguing with that person, yes? Sorry my opinion differs from yours, and that it goes against the status quo of "Don't talk bad about italian sportbikes, especilly MV...They are the best, they have no race victories and heritage to speak of, but the bike is Italian, so it HAS to be awesome! The R1 is a better-looking bike, but it is just Japanese, so the MV is automatically better-looking..."

Give me a break. The F4's styling is convoluted, at best.

Forget that. Give me a reliable Japanese Super Sport-class 600 or 1000 any day.

Flame away. Round 6.

[2006schoolbusyellow250R]

"Soul" does not have a price tag. Unfortunately a lot of buyers of European and US motorcycles do not realise this.
I don't care what you ride or if you want to drop $25,000 on a bike that may look pretty swish but falls short (in comparison) in other departments like performance for example.
I have a Suzuki Bandit that has more soul, in my opinion, than any other bike on the road because I have nursed it back to health after an accident and made it uniquely my own through many hours of hard work.

If you want to pretend that your bike is more special because you paid a fortune for it, good for you.

Amen to that! I could not have said it better myself.

The Bandit is a badass little ripper. Is it a 400, 600, 1200? Gotta love those Japanese inline fours!

[sapaul]

"Soul" does not have a price tag. Unfortunately a lot of buyers of European and US motorcycles do not realise this.
I don't care what you ride or if you want to drop $25,000 on a bike that may look pretty swish but falls short (in comparison) in other departments like performance for example.
I have a Suzuki Bandit that has more soul, in my opinion, than any other bike on the road because I have nursed it back to health after an accident and made it uniquely my own through many hours of hard work.

If you want to pretend that your bike is more special because you paid a fortune for it, good for you.

I paid a lot of money for my bike, K1200S BMW, it is not special because of what I paid, or what the heritage is or how many races they have not won, it is special because of how it makes me feel when I ride it. I have had a couple of really good bikes that made me feel good but nothing as special as this one. This one makes me feel F@$king awsome. If an MV makes someone feel as good as this then it's an awsome bike, but so is the "94" ex500 that someone just bought as his first. My opinion is that if you have to argue this then you have never acheived that feeling.

[totalmotorcycle]

Figured i'd ask the "expeierenced" biker dudes about 'dis. I was wondering what the better value is between the two countries (Italy and Japan). what one is better to ride, which is better for full out speed and which one you (opinions) like better. jus' wondering, thanx.

I think we are getting a little off topic here my friends. Lets go back to the original question.

...which the original question isn't easy to give a stright up answer as which one is "better".

Each motorcycle brand and even model has its own merit and value. I highly doubt you could classify the whole lot by country as you could not by manufacturer.... model series maybe.

Italy and Japan approach their model designs very differently as the make up of each country is as different in design as they are in culture. I think the Moto Guzzi Breva 750IE is a beautiful looking and functional motorcycle from Italy, as is the Ducati Monster series. But I see a lot of the same from Japan as well such as the ZRX series, the Bandits and so many more.

I find Japan goes for more industrial practicality while the bikes from Italy have more artistic flare and sculpture.

For me, there is no one country that does it better, they all do it just differently.

Mike.

[totalmotorcycle]

As the topic of "Motorcycle Soul" the answer for me is when you love and appreciate a motorcycle enough and it seems to be both ways (the bike never lets you down, always gets you home, makes you feel really good to ride it) then there is a line where you cross it develops a soul to you.

This can happen with ANY motorcycle no matter who makes it, what its worth or what you paid for it.

I think a rider is lucky to say they have/had a motorcycle that has made them feel this way as not all of the motorcycle you own will in your lifetime.

Mike.

[Wizzard]

I reckon I've been mighty lucky over the years on several occasions.......
Da Wizz

[High_Side]

If you are tired of having a "battle" of wits with someone else who has a different opinion than you, you might stop arguing with that person, yes?

Your very persistant but have added nothing new to the conversation since my last post except a couple of choice word substitutions above. I think I pretty much had you covered in my last post so to answer your question, yes.